Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

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Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

Post by Flemk on Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:53 pm

I've reflected over this for a bit and I wished to bring it to the public to see how the rest would handle this situation.

This matters regards the interaction between someone that is new to the RP Defias Brotherhood landskape. As new I intend that the character the player is bringing into the world is not an established one but rather unseen before.
It is clear that each of us is, and should, allowed to Roleplay whatever he wants, as long few basic rules, as for example lore consistency and power scales related to the context of the Roleplay are fulfilled.
Also it is clear that a players should on a general line accept the ripercussions that the character he wishes to play rises.
When it comes to guild recruitment of course the player is subjected to the restrictions the guild has, because of course the guild wants to promote some valors and specific types of roleplay that might want characters to go through a specific progression or maybe or have a particular set of thoughts and skills.

This anyway is not valid for interguild and open world roleplay where, beside the few above stated restrictions, everyone is free to roleplay everything. So it might happen to meet warlocks, admirals, soldiers and roles of all kinds. And maybe people that even if never seen before, have always been present in a particular place all the time.

It might happen though that at time some imbalances happens in the world roleplay, where a specific type or roleplay takes over, conditioning the entire server. For example an organization which seeks to destroy the magic could hunt every mage making magic very rare. The Council of Stormwind and the Senate of Ironforge are for example things that falls into this category, meaning that they are self enstablished organization able to condition the overall rp landscape. They are enstablished entities that in most of the case are accepted by everyone, and doing so they do impose rules over the rest of the population. This doesn't happen of course in an active manner, in which the council forces something over anyone, but is a natural agreements that silently rises between both parts of the Roleplay.

This of course rises an issue, as the presence of these kind of roleplay locks out choices of custimization. As example, if all the mages in a certain area have been hunted, it is very unlikely that someone can roleplay a mage that has always been in that place. Same goes for the Council. It is almost impossible for someone to roleplay a District Major or a Minister without the approval of the Council, as such positions are locked by the natural evolution of the roleplay in the server.
So in a way even if both of these examples brings up many roleplay opportunities, they are damaging the roleplay freedoms in a sense. Where should the line be drawn?

I'd say that the line should lie in this case where the events would conflicts with the lore. In the case of the mage hunt, it is clear that this can't happen for example in Stormwind, but could happen in a very isolated place. The Council on the other hand,  is likely to exist even if not mentioned in the lore, but even if so, it should be roleplayed taking into consideration that certain decisions might end up contraddicting the lore, and therefore they should not be taken and also less positions possible should be locked to keep as big as possible the roleplay variety.

All this is to set the landskape of the real issue. Let's imagine a new character stepping into the roleplay world, played by a player which knows exactly all the lore and the in character situation of the server, meaning all the playing organizations and entities.
Let's say that this character has a background in which he is supposed to be someone that has been present and known in a certain area of the roleplay, area that usually might require training or an in character progression to be entered but that has never yet entered that area in Character. Let's also say that there is comunication between the player that handle such area of the game and the player which handle this new character. To bring up two practical example, let's consider someone which claims to have been a minister for decades and wishes to sit at the council, or a Stormwind's guard Captain which claims to have been on service for decades and claims to have guard rights.

Should this character be allowed to skip the progression, and be considered already enstablished ? Even if yes, how is the comunity supposed to react when facing a new character never seen before which claims to have rights that in theory he should claim with playtime and interactions?

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Re: Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

Post by Reyxor on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:30 am

This issue is not as big on DB than on AD possibly, with AD no same for all server lore is in place, but guilds have their own lore more I think.

I think the case of having already established guard captain, who is new on DB as a character has been like in his own "solo bubble", when again the Council is in its bigger bubble, with several players playing the same server lore. I think it's the solo bubble task to fit in the bigger bubble, but also for the bigger bubble to be as accepting as possible to merge with the solo bubble player's story.

So the guard captain could have his guard rights, but they also need to be ensured to be valid for the Council, maybe he gained them from some other entity, that is still Stormwind guard rights, but given by different entity than Council. So there are options for merging the solo bubble with the group bubble, once there are the connections in place, to like merge the two bubbles reasonably.

The having all mages hunted out from SW, is to me actually power rp, it's like not acceptable in game lore to have such imo. Would King Anduin for example accept it, that all mages like would be thrown out without a very good reason. No it doesn't fit to game lore and is power rp in larger scale than for an individual only but power rp accepted by a group of players.


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Re: Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

Post by Cid on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:45 am

I find the Senate a tad more liberate in some things (I might be biased), we don't have any "guard rights" to ask for and whatnot. People can dress up as guards if they want to and do their thing (seen a <Ironforge Guard> guild around occasionally in IF).

If someone popped by and claimed that they've been part of the Senate for years, but that they have been in the field all this time, it is quite likely. After all, there are NPCs with Senator in the names that try to solve issues by handing out quests across the lands (though do note that they tend to be Dwarves). If players who roleplay a senator like that want to partake in the meetings and vote, they can do so.

If a person claim to have been in a specific Seat or department however (considering how those bits are player made), we would quite likely require an interview with the person to see how suitable they are for the job (creating events around that position, Seat of Artifacts and archeology expeditions for instance).

As for the other questions, or what to call them:
The player-made Dwarf laws were made long before I even joined the scene, but they seem to revolve around what Dwarf traditions and history we can find sources for. Undead and shadow magic for instance, Dwarves don't really feel comfortable around either, thus there were laws against both for quite a while (until WotLK and Death Knights appeared and we needed to adapt the laws to accommodate for players who have DKs, as one example).

Shadow/Void magics are quite scary for Dwarves, those who remember the stories behind Grim Batol and such are likely to fear beings wielding such powers. We will need to make some alterations due to the Void Elves now, but likely not permitting them to go full voidform within the city (just as DKs are not permitted to summon any undead mounts or minions).

If you want to RP as a guard, a senator or whatnot, you can do so. Just be prepared for a few questions about your character's service to the Mountain.

If you are In Character within Ironforge walls as a DK/warlock/shadow priest/Void elf with a ghoul, demon or other aberration summoned, you will be asked to dismiss those since it is against IC law to have such summoned. Don't want frightened civilians. Wink

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Re: Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

Post by Azapha on Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:27 am

yay opinion time *clears throat*

i kinda agree on the senate from cids comment. the context of its RP is a lot more lax and i dont think you can put it in the same context as the council for one critical reason which i still think should be addressed by SW council. senators are REPRESENTATIVES of there roll, not the big I AM of it in iron forge, SW council ministers ARE the big I AM of there roll.

the minister of justice has power over the laws, the minister of magic is the leading force of stormwinds magical affairs, the ministers are much more than just a representative which makes as OP mentions the idea of a non council minister pretty impossible.

my suggestion that i made years ago i still think is valid, make the ministers a representative of there roll, so the minister of magic is a face for the council but is not actually the only minister in magical affairs, the minister of justice is the councils representative to clarify law on behalf of the other ministers and officials in that roll.

why do I think this works? because in lore all ministers would answer back to the house of nobles anyway, and I'm damn certain they would have more than one dude/lady running the whole show for the city! Also it would allow for someone who dos not have high involvement in the council to play rolls like these without treading on the toes of them that do too much, theres my 10 cent on that part

the part of SW council that I think should be removed and with my reasons as to why. GUARD RIGHTS!!

for anyone who has played multiple character classes though storylines and bothered to read them, theres a lot of people in SW with rights like guards who would not get there authority from the council, for eg the mage tower could very well have officials who have rights to investigate magical affairs without question on behalf of Stormwinds interests, the warlocks below the lamb are in lore "publicly immune" to prosecution because they work on behalf of the king in secret ((there is a whole quest chain to show this)) and i am DAMN sure there authority is not going to be granted by the council as they are given an item that is a show of there status to show guards that they are immune to some laws.

I could go on forever with examples but the point is guards rights is rather dumb when theres lots of means in character one could get rights akin to it, I personally would not question if the guy playing a guard in SW is in a guild with guard rights or not, if thats what there playing then ill play to it, I dont think the council of all places should be the ones "granting" guards rights for the city, there is simply to much in game lore means of getting authority for the councils one to really mean anything.

maybe the council could step back from granting rights to guard the city and allow players who want to go that root to do so them selves ?

the thing to do with "kicking all the mages out" is already delt with imho, if you attempt to do something that outrageous no one will listen to you or follow along with your RP, because you cannot by game means kick out the mage tower NPCs and it brakes lore to do so, i think theres enough limitations set by that alone to make a overly stupid move

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Re: Problems Between Comunity and Characters.

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