[A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

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[A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:04 am

III Congress of the Silver Hand

Disclaimer: in reference to this, please, comment bellow, entitling the post: "III Congress."
To avoid chaos, please, try to write thorough thoughts to avoid one word/sentence opinions (to help you, try to answer these: what is your opinion on this? why do you think so? if you disagree what is your argument? if you disagree do you have anything to propose?).

During the II Congress, those who met at Light's Hope (Reyxor, Bauldur, Yriah, Yannim, Skàrvàld, Aarvic, Drecain, Anthaniel, Maelmoor,  Caladil, Seregolas, Xahneras), once again discussed about the way the Order of the Silver Hand should be ruled. Due to problems with changing the date of that meeting, as well as the late arrival of the GM, the gathering was mostly OOC, and no IC decision was made, other than to postpone the voting.

The author who proposed the very idea would like to stress couple of things before this moves on, as there is a feeling that could be sensed, that many see this new idea the way they used to: as establishing yet another political organisation for roleplay, which would be wrong and totally against its primal goal. Because, even though there truly are some things that would need the political type of roleplay, it does not lie in the core of it and should be avoided as much as possible.

There were three former proposals and one that arrived that evening:

  • to have one Higholrd,
  • to have three Highlords,
  • to have three Highlords per faction,
  • not to set the Highlord, but rather a "council" made of representatives ("Hands") from both factions.


Option one has been opinionated by the majority as the one, that would lead to conflicts, both IC or OOC, as many roleplayers perceive this as OP or simply impersonating a lore character (#apocalypse).
The author would like to stress, that this proposal was based on in-game lore, as currently the "hero" is the Highlord of the Silver Hand, and (according to some commentators) for a limited amount of time (till next expansion). That is why the author came with the idea to try bringing it to roleplay, as it makes a wholly new area of roleplay finally possible, not to mention it enables a lot of lore connected events to be brought into global roleplay (instead of being a hot potato).
Of course, this way the roleplayer chosen would be pretty much OP, but, in the author's view, this should be perceived as an opportunity rather than limitation.

Option two is more "democratic" as it spreads the power over three roleplayers (corresponding with the Three Virtues), who would need to cooperate together to achieve a goal, is it an individual one or not. This, however, brings a problem of distribution of roles between factions.

One of the most important factors in that matter: the Order of the Silver Hand is a big organisation based on smaller units, like the Argent Dawn and Brotherhood of the Light to start with the smaller ones, up to the big/numerous like: the Blood Knights or the Argent Crusade. It has been in lore for some time now, that all paladins follow the Three Virtues which are their cardinal commandments. The Argent Dawn and other groups have had different races from both factions, beginning from the end of the Third War.
That is why it would be wrong to assume that paladins have different aims, depending on their allegiance. Lorewise, all holy knights follow the Light; therefore, let us say, a potential combat between a Human paladin and a Blood Elf paladin would not only be prohibited by the code, but also highly dishonourable (looking at the matter from the formal standpoint). It is known, that prolonged tradition to hate those of other faction has brought the current perception of things ("You must be crazy if you claim I cannot fight with the Horde/the Alliance"), but a paladin that would even dare to form some sinister of mean thoughts against another paladin violates all that in fact makes him a paladin.

Option three is a compromise, proposed once, but never discussed thoroughly. The main aim is here to avoid a situation, when one faction has more Highlords than the other. It was reasoned, that this way there is more roleplay for more people. The comment here is that such a setting would lead to a situation when paladins of different factions do not need the other to operate, and thus defying the primal aim of having the reunited Order. Also, this would lead to dilution of the very title.

Option four has arrived during the II Congress, and somehow envelops all former proposals: no Highlord as such is chosen, instead a body of councillors eliminated through voting for a limited amount of time.
The number was hard to established. Some said one per faction, some said one per guild. Some proposed to call them all "Hands" of the Highlord.
The author believes that yet another set is possible: not "Hands" but "Fingers" that would all form the Hand. Each finger would be assigned to each of five races that can become holy knights. The office of a Finger would also be assigned to each of five capital cities:  Stormwind, Ironforge, Exodar, Silvermoon, Thunder Bluff. Some additional settings could be: one year office (inbetween the Harvest Festival occurrences), running offices in corresponding cities, the right to veto.

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This option does not comfort the problem of even number of "those in power" on both sides. As for now this would be quite legitimate, as there is no single guild on the Horde side, that would roleplay a Light oriented organisation. That may change, of course, in the future, and let us hope it will. But the author believes that neither situation does not change the fact, that all paladins work as Brothers and Sisters in the Light, and not as pawns and officers of warring factions.

Awaiting for your comments and availability/suggestions about the best day to set the III Congress (Monday? Tuesday? Wednesday? Thursday? Friday? Saturday? Sunday?). The Order needs as many hands on this as possible.

Archive:
Aug 31:

I Congress of the Silver Hand

To all followers of the Light


Holy Knights of Azeroth,

for a long time the Order of the Silver has been disorganised and in disarray. All the tragic events that lead to that happening, starting with the death of Lord Uther, conversion of the Order into the Scarlet Crusade, splinter of the Argent Dawn, then again reassembling as the Argent Crusade have proven only, that no evil can put an end to the idea that has been first initiated by blessed Archbishop Alonsus Faol and the Church of Light. The Silver Hand, the sum of all those following the Light, has prevailed.

The Argent Crusade has received a heavy blow trying to repel invading forces of the Burning Legion, and can not stand alone in this fight. With the death of Highlord Tyrion Fordring on the shores of the Broken Isles the time has come to put all differences and dissensions aside and to reunite once again! For Azeroth is in need for paragons of the Light like never before.

The Argent Crusade, therefore, wishes to invite all of you, noble knights of the Light, to a gathering of all branches of the followers of Tyr - the first Congress of the Silver Hand. Due to ongoing struggle to halt the deamonic invasion it is set on the third week of September. The gathering will take place in Light's Hope. All those travelling from the South will be welcomed at Chillwind's Point, from where, on Thursday evening, a guarded column will escort you through the Plaguelands. The column will stop by the Tomb of Lord Uther at Raven's Hill to pay homage to the First Paladin. Then the column will head East to Light's Hope, where all guests will be welcomed and accommodated. The congress will start on the following day, the 16th of September.

If you have any questions, please, send a raven to Hearthglen.
Esarus thar no'Darador,

Fineas Whitewell
Chaplain General of the Argent Crusade


OOC agenda:

- anyone can take part in the event,

- organisers kindly ask WPvP guilds to withdraw from disrupting the event;

- organisers ask to withdraw from introducing individual criminal or spontaneous plotlines into the event, due to time schedule;

- Chaplain General will open the meeting with reading the names of the fallen in Lordaeron;

- there will be a voting for the Highlord of the Silver Hand or three peer Highlords;

- taking part in the voting requires to be either a priest or a paladin IC-wise (you can log on your alts, but your character's deeds must be clear);

- due to a lot of controversy, if only one Highlord is chosen and if he or she chooses to wield the Ashbringer or any other paladin artefact weapon, he or she will need to accept the Corruption Quest, that will start from the very moment of his succession to a point when he is removed or the lore names an NPC Highlord; details about the Corruption quest are yet to be discussed (it will certainly lead to events which would impure the wielder's character sheet).

- if any Undead from the Horde side would find himself in need to be there during the event but remain silent all the time the organisers would propose him to act as an extra impersonating Bishop Alonsus Faol.
Sep 16:
OOC:

Thanks to all who took part! It is a very good beginning!

With just the representatives of the Alliance holy orders it was established, that during the next meeting three leaders (Triumvirs, Champions of Respect, Tenacity, and Compassion) will be chosen and that till that time some candidates will be proposed (one per guild I presume).

We hope the Horde will not be asleep in this and that some representatives of Blood Knights and Sunwalkers will show up!

We can use this thread to discuss the matter. There was a suggestion to ease the pain of cross-faction and to establish three leaders a faction. What do you think? Please, try to be concise and write longer posts but more thorough.
Oct 15:

II Congress of the Silver Hand


The time has come to meet once again and to make a choice! The proposed date is next Saturday, 16th of October, at ten bells in the evening in Sanctum of Light.

It would be most excellent if those listed could respond concerning the availability:


  • Lord Maelmoor Lightbringer from the Holy Lightbringers

  • Sir Valestrion Drayke or Sir Beladon Indarys from the Disciples of Light

  • Captain Reyxor Nightfall from the Ninth Company

Disclaimer:


  • The election of three equal Highlords (Champion of Tenacity, Champion of Respect, and Champion of Compassion) will be conducted on the base of "applications" sent by guilds that do honour the Teachings of the Church in their agenda. If there is any other Alliance guild that does so, please, pardon my omission and let me know.

  • There will be one voting per function, which means all candidates have three chances to become a Highlord (one as Champion of Tenacity, one as Champion of Respect, and one as Champion of Compassion). The function of this is to slightly divide the roles of each Highlord.

  • There can be multiple candidates from one guild if no inner agreement can be reached.

  • Each paladin character, no matter is it ingame or In Character, has one vote.

  • It would be most suitable if at least one Highlord was choosen from the Horde, but, to my knowledge, there is no Light oriented guild on the Horde, am I wrong?

As for 15th of October three candidates has been registered:


  • Captain Reyxor Nighfall from the Ninth Company

  • Captain F. Bauldur from the Ninth Company

  • Lord Maxwell Tyrosus from the Argent Crusade

  • Lord Aramal Blackstone of House Blackwood from the Argent Crusade



Last edited by Fineas on Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:21 am; edited 12 times in total

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Reyxor - Urgual on Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:42 am

*raven from Tyr's Hand flys to Hearthglen bearing this message*
Regarding the Congress of the Silver Hand: We will take our fellows with interest on this to come to this Congress. I assume those who are followers of light and those who are willing to learn may have a possibility to attend.

Reyxor Nightfall, Captain of the Ninth Company


Is very nice looking event. Will try to be there.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Azapha on Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:37 pm

Azapha for her own reasons may come by and attend.. although its up to you if your accept her being there (shes far removed from a light follower)

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:19 am

OP Edited.


Last edited by Fineas on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Hutchins on Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:53 am

Huh, well this certainly sounds interesting.

I imagine Sebastian may attend this out of his respect for Tirion to see who is his "successor" as it were. Would it be possible to send me an event invitation?

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Skarain on Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:58 am

I have no paladin characters around, so I have kept my distance. I have no thoughts to share about 3 leaders per faction, or 3 leaders shared on both factions.

Cross-faction communication made easy: RP Connect

We hope the Horde will not be asleep in this and that some representatives of Blood Knights and Sunwalkers will show up!
Horde is horrible at reading these forums. If you wanted a massive reaction, the way I would have advice is to approach each guild individually about it ingame. Ask whom are officers, talk with them and have them smack it on their calendar. That is how you get word around on Horde.

Regardless, I dropped a link of this into the Horde Organizers Discord Group. Expect no miracles with that, however.

I can smack something on Red Reach Raiders calendar about this, tagged for Paladins, but I'll need a date for the next gathering. None is found on forums.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Reyxor - Urgual on Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:06 am

The travel to Light's Hope started in good weather. The convoy visited the tomb of Uther the Lightbringer to pay a tribute to the first paladin.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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At the Light's Hope Chapel Sanctum there was the Congress. Talks were held. And the matters to decide were the leadership of the order of the light and what to do with the artifacts, no decisions were yet made, but they were postponed to a later time.

OOC idea about the leadership of the order:

I'd like to point out the exact matter the op says with three leaders for the order for each faction Horde and Alliance. It would ease the handling of things, if we had 3 deciding characters on both factions. I believe a decision to be valid, it would need the votes from both factions to support the idea that is to be decided. So at least 2 supporting votes from both factions for the decision to go through and become valid. There would be needed someone to hold the votes like an arbitrator, I believe there are those willing to act as such. In case Horde doesn't show interest on the decisions of the order, the decisions would go without Horde and vice versa, which would be not what is hoped.

This would ease the process for the voters and making decision, due to the communication isn't exactly as easy going crossfaction as it is within the one's own faction. The addons, not using myself, but I assume the addon would not be used by everyone. So I propose this idea of two different factions to have three decision makers for each and this arbitrator.


ps. The event in this image hasn't taken place ic, but I like to show this "nightmarish" screen.
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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:29 am

OP Update.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Maelmoor on Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:11 pm

I need to look up that date, will get back when I know (in a couple of days)

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Mornil on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:16 am

*An owl with a envelope attached to it's neck flies to the Heartglen. The envelope is secured with Lightseeker's seal.*
"The Horde representatives that are available will take part in the Congress. Seek out our arrival two days before the date.
Lady Caladil Lightseeker"

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Seregolas on Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:10 pm

hey there! I really like what you guys are doing there. My only problem is that it is planned on Saturday. I can not make it on that day actually. I am very interested to see how things work out and move on with this concept!

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Skarain on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:23 am

Deep Narative Voice: And thus, the only Horde paladin of a rank of any kind fails attendancy, giving all the power to the Alliance, who shall eventually take over the entire organisation and purge the vile Horde many years from now as an affront to the Light.

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Also known as Mahruon, Halisi, Reljen, Senrar, Inran, Flickÿ and Grimfeather

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Maelmoor on Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:08 am

I will be there!

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:55 am

Due to problems with availability, the event is moved on the following day, Sunday 16th at 22:00 server time. I apologise for inconvenience.

OP updated.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:49 pm

The II Congress of the Silver Hand has ended with no IC result. OOC reasons made us postpone it for yet another date, to be announced. The agreements and arguments that has been reached OOC will be soon published on forums.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Fineas on Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:04 am

OP updated.

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

Post by Reyxor - Urgual on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:50 am

Well I shall comment.

Option one: to have one Highlord
I'm against this, not is it only dictatorial and simply boring to have one solely that is responsible on all decisions and can decide on its own for others. Also the ooc aspect of availability sets this option to be worst from all 5 current options. IC this is also highly risky for the order, since sudden events can put the highlord unavailable for duty, and sets the order is jeopardy.

Option two: to have three Highlords
This is simple option, too simple to work. We have Horde and Alliance, there are either majority for Alliance or Horde. The one which is the less having faction, will probably disagree on many things simply due to being in another faction, since the factions don't think alike on many things. So it would be easily benefited by the faction who has majority. There aren't saints in the order, a paladin is less than one, so mischief or misconduct may happen, and it should be tried to be prevented. This option leads too easily into benefiting the ruling faction.

Option three: to have three Highlords per faction
This is the most functioning in terms of factions' getting equal possibility to influence and also enbales most democratic decisions. There would be also as the op says more numerous players involved and in my opinion the most interesting, to follow the decisions. It may not be the best when one thinks of the order as separate from the factions, but again no saints, only paladins that we have here. Every paladin must know, they may have to at times even maybe fight another from the order at a battle, a saint wouldn't like to do such, but if the decision is enough hard, there is a possibility for conflict. Nothing is absolute, The Order of the Silver Hand is nothing perfect and neither are the paladins who form it. I'd say being too high on the aspect of being a warrior saint and being a paladin, makes it too much like hypocritical idealism and non functional in the real world of World of Warcraft.

Option four: not to set the Highlord, but rather a "council" made of representatives ("Hands") from both factions
I think the same as the earlier option three. I support that the earlier option three would have the names for the decision makers as hands of the Highlord and no player would be as a Highlord. So I support  three hands of the Highlord for each faction and no player character as the actual Highlord, since that is in game every paladin or no one (unnamed hero).

Option five: to have hand formed from "fingers"
This is like the nice one, but really imaginary one. Connecting the fingers to capital cities, that is slightly needing some background work, to make it sensible. And there is a problem for the factions' being equal in the system of making democratic decisions. I'd say this as a nice thought, but really feeling that it may not work and would have to be later changed to another type of system. Or there would be needed to make at least equal somehow by adding one spot for Horde.

So as you may notice I'm much for the equal decisions for the Alliance and Horde, since I think it is the most long term functioning system. No one can get disappointed on the decisions due to faction pride, if the both factions have equal possibilities. And the ideal paladin would probably not make decisions due to one's affiliation to a faction, but there is no perfect paladin, so such should be prevented by a system that makes it less viable.

"The first paladin Uther Lightbringer didn't live the the world the current paladins are in today. He didn't see the problems there are today for the paladins. A lot has changed from the days of Uther, we can't make decisions of today driven by the past, since the status quo is different."

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Re: [A - H] Congress of the Silver Hand

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