My new shop?

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My new shop?

Post by Reynard on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:40 pm

Thoughts?  Smile

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:04 pm

As in you're claiming ownership, or?

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Skarain on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:10 pm

I think "the owner allows me to run my business here, as I to carry my weight into the conflict that way, by forging weapons and armour" works well as an excuse to make use of the space.

Not claim direct ownership, but make use of the space.

That is what I am probably going to do myself. That, or renting space.

I'll probably be camping Legerdemain Lounge with Skarain, rather than claim an official "shop" anywhere.

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Reynard on Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:47 am

I was just throwing the idea out there to get some feedback and ideas really. Funnily enough, with all the demons running around in the streets at the moment, there does not appear to be any sort of owner. Smile

Interesting that it is considered okay to use a shop or tavern in SW as your base and claim that the staff there work for you, but not Dalaran?

'Tanks' is right across the street from the Legerdemain Lounge, so I think it would make a great RP hub. I also think (not sure - someone can confirm who has played the Beta?) it's the base for the smithing quests which means it will have a constant flow of smiths coming in and out. It feels like a great place to have as a base for Fen.

And yes, I expect I'll have to use the "I rent a corner of this place" approach rather than a "I own this place" approach. But if I can get away with it and if it makes sense then "I own this place" would be my preferred line.

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Skarain on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:23 am

I think whether ownership can be claimed depends on the amount of demand that there is for the building.

I mean, no-one in here is going to frown upon you for starting a business of any kind. You start a roleplaying initiative, with the intent to create roleplaying. Tavern Ownership, with the intention to create business/roleplaying in the tavern or recently the Rey's Blades smithing shop to Old Town, Stormwind.

Likewise, different guilds have frequently claimed space for themselves to use, on-top-most coming to my mind the HQ of the Wardens of Azeroth in Ironforge Mystic Ward.

We do not play on a massively crowded roleplaying realm, so a lot of space is free to be use.

How do we deal with space that multiple people might want to use, however?

What if two guilds pick the same tavern and both wants to start running the tavern while keeping it as their guilds headquarters? You can:
1.) Share the space, not claim ownership at all.
2.) Come to a sort-of-an-agreement of co-owning.
3.) One guild who is already established "rents" space for the newer guild.
4.) One of the guilds go out to seek another place for themselves.

In case of Option 3, it's quite likely that the other guild will eventually chose the 4th, unless the relation and interaction between the two guild generates good kind of roleplaying to them that they like.
Totally unrelated but sort-of in the subject:
Just came to my mind in terms of "ownership" and "interaction". I led once upon a time a Military guild on the Alliance, Wild Tempest, and we did largely answer/listen to the commands of the Stormwind Minister of Defence at that time. They gave us someone of High Brass to shout us orders, providing us more structure in roleplaying, and they got to feel more 'ministry' and influential when their title came with an entire army to command. We did discuss what is "ok" and what is "not ok" OOC however.

One could technically set up something similar with either Tavern ownership or Smithy Shop ownership, providing both parties agree into it. It's an interesting thought nonetheless.
I just had to link one comic drawn in regarding the subject, once the Minister of Defense changed once upon time:
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Giving IC leadership to someone else can sometimes create some awesome roleplaying. Wink

In Legion Live, Dalaran is going to be filled with NPC's again. This will mean that the Smithy will again be populated by NPC's that have been there since WotLK. Likely, a good deal of Smithing Profession Questline is going to use said smithy as one of it return points. There is also a hidden entrance to the Rogue Class Hall in the building, as far as I can remember.

Claiming un-used space for your or your guild use is perfectly fine, but when giving thought to a potentially public and busy place, I would generally discourage it or at least encourage one to spend a lot effort to think how it would work.

Why would the current shop-owner relinquish their ownership, and how to treat other players who want to use the smithing facilities located in the city, since you happen to "own" the only forge in the city. Would you start to tax them gold for each hammer swing for using 'your' forge?

Mind, I am not claiming that you would be doing so, but merely raising up some issues that ownership claim can bring up. Smile


Last edited by Skarain on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Reynard on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:33 am

Skarain wrote:Why would the current shop-owner relinquish their ownership

It's easy to say that the "shop keeper" is actually just an employee and a PC is the owner.

and how to treat other players who want to use the smithing facilities located in the city, since you happen to "own" the only forge in the city. Would you start to tax them gold for each hammer swing for using 'your' forge?

Excellent idea.  This way I can replace my lost Garrison income.  Wink

Mind, I am not claiming that you would be doing so, but merely raising up some issues that ownership claim can bring up. Smile

Yeah, I get it.  Realistically it's unreasonable to claim ownership of a shop which is the only blacksmith in the city, when there are clearly going to be a lot of smiths who could claim the same.   I think the only option really is to use the space, rather than own the space.   That still has all the benefits of building an RP hub next to the coffee shop.  I guess I'll go down this route.

If only I'd chosen to make my profession that of bee-keeper.  I'm sure I could have claimed ownership of a bee hive in Dalaran without much contention.  Wink

P.S.  I'm going to get very suspicious when a bunch of leather clad, mask wearing individuals keep coming into the forge...

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Skarain on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:36 am

Fenodyree wrote:P.S.  I'm going to get very suspicious when a bunch of leather clad, mask wearing individuals keep coming into the forge...
The local bee-herders?

What else might that mask and thick leather be than to shield against the stings!

Wink

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Reynard on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:39 am

Skarain wrote:
Fenodyree wrote:P.S.  I'm going to get very suspicious when a bunch of leather clad, mask wearing individuals keep coming into the forge...
The local bee-herders?

What else might that mask and thick leather be than to shield against the stings!

Wink

Laughing

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Re: My new shop?

Post by siegmund on Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:58 am

Just so you know that's not the place where the secret rogue class hall entrance is.

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Reynard on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:05 am

siegmund wrote:Just so you know that's not the place where the secret rogue class hall entrance is.

Ah, but you would say that wouldn't you, you secret rogue dude, you...

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:12 am

Fenodyree wrote:
Interesting that it is considered okay to use a shop or tavern in SW as your base and claim that the staff there work for you, but not Dalaran?

Just for the record, I never think this is okay regardless of where it is. It's like going to the playground and saying "I own this sandbox now".

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Cid on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:39 pm

When Ironforge was more heavily populated, we OOC'ly shared many of the buildings and went into another similiar house if the regular one was occupied for the time being. Nothing weird with that (except when we were to use our jail, kindof hard to explain why people were living in that one suddenly).

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Re: My new shop?

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:02 pm

Cid wrote:When Ironforge was more heavily populated, we OOC'ly shared many of the buildings and went into another similiar house if the regular one was occupied for the time being. Nothing weird with that (except when we were to use our jail, kindof hard to explain why people were living in that one suddenly).

I'm a supporter of this approach. It's fair to assume that some of the characters in the game would own houses, homes or other sort of property. In this case, if you can find a building to use to portray that property, and that building is empty, there's no reason you can't use it for that purpose. Out of consideration of other players though, you shouldn't claim that that exact building belongs to you on an OOC level. Leave it ambiguous where the actual building you own is.

Mind you, there are ways to take presumed "ownership" of a building IC. Back before the Forlorn Cartel left the server, we more or less unofficially claimed the Cutthroat Alley. This went uncontested, ofc, as we were the only guild to my knowledge that was interested in using that as their base. However, in order to make it harder for the guards to snoop around our business, at one point we ICly forged a deed to the building behind the Shady Lady. The Lady itself was obviously owned by Quincy <Owner and Proprietor> Cutler and our only relationship to the bar was that it was our preferred hangout spot and we played out ambiguous personal relations to Quincy, but ICly we used the deed we'd forged to claim IC ownership of the building behind the Shady Lady, a deed which was passed on whenever a kingpin was removed from power.

We got away with it, because nobody ever challenged us on it and the guards never investigated the deed. However from our perspective it was always entirely and consciously a con, and we never OOCly assumed to own that building. However, it did put us in a position where we would ICly attempt to throw people out when they came around uninvited etc. The difference here being that OOCly we didn't lay claim to anything. The moment there is an OOC claim that "My character owns this and that", it can not reasonably be actual buildings in the game world. Use them when they're available to portray the buildings your char owns, but if you come around and someone else is inside, don't go "hey, what are you doing in my [home/shop/workplace/etc]", but rather accept that the sandbox is full right now and you'll have to come back later if you want to build your sandcastle.

This is all obviously not ideal but it's the most fair way to go about it in a world where Blizzard doesn't provide systems for people that want to RP house/shop/tavern owners to do so without stepping on other people's toes.

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