Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Lady Eveline Williams on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:39 pm

It doesn't help though in cases like this one that they are dressed all the same so you can't really tell if that specific order of theirs apart from the rest or when they are on the job being "guards" or not.

Just as a note, this has already been changed around; Paired with TRP3 descriptions and a different tabard, they are required to stand out from the rest of Yore now.

That's all I had to add so far. :T

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Reynard on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:48 am

As a newbie to the realm I have to say the whole thing about who is in charge in the city is very confusing.   I think it should be made much simpler (but realise that this suggestion will never fly as it would mean forcing "guard guilds" to work in a certain way):

1. Make one and only one guild represent the City Guard.
You can have as many military guilds as you want but they should be involved in fighting the horde or protecting the wilds, not guarding SW
2. Force anyone in that City Guard guild to wear the full SW uniform (dead easy to get hold of now since Draenor) when on duty.

This way it is really obvious if someone is a City Guard.

Yorian's who wear their usual black and a SW tabard are not obviously a city guard to a newbie RPer on the realm.   You should not need to spend hours reading these forums - as I do - in order to get up to speed with who is guarding the city IC.  It should be immediately obvious IC.

My 2 gold dragons...

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Bareans Silversmith on Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:17 am

Fenodyree wrote:As a newbie to the realm I have to say the whole thing about who is in charge in the city is very confusing.   I think it should be made much simpler (but realise that this suggestion will never fly as it would mean forcing "guard guilds" to work in a certain way):

1. Make one and only one guild represent the City Guard.
You can have as many military guilds as you want but they should be involved in fighting the horde or protecting the wilds, not guarding SW
2. Force anyone in that City Guard guild to wear the full SW uniform (dead easy to get hold of now since Draenor) when on duty.

This way it is really obvious if someone is a City Guard.

Yorian's who wear their usual black and a SW tabard are not obviously a city guard to a newbie RPer on the realm.   You should not need to spend hours reading these forums - as I do - in order to get up to speed with who is guarding the city IC.  It should be immediately obvious IC.

My 2 gold dragons...

1 )Well, one guild is a problematic, what if one of the player dislike the leaders, or many other reasons ? I think to have two or three guilds is enough or could work, like we had with the shields, regiment and the disciples, although the disciples were more of watchers...so I disagree with this.
2) I agree to this one, and IC Bareans even offered that to the minister of justice few times, however the yore are not guards, they are milithy who just help, I do think they should wear a different uniform from the other yore or well just a stormwind tabard but they already do.

Also I think, ooc the yore who roleplay a guards should put in their note (Trp) some information that makes sure he is a guard, like "Wearing a badge" or just a title or something...because not all of them type it in their trp.


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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Reynard on Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:37 am

Fair comment on #1 and to be fair if multiple "guard guilds" all wore the SW city guard uniform then it wouldn't matter.

As an RPer who is not up to speed with the guild politics on the server (that would be most casual RPers) then it would be best if ALL city guards simply looked the same.

Would it be that hard to have the Yorians wear SW city guard uniforms when on guard? Without that they lack credibility to me. If I was RPing a criminal and a Yorian tried to arrest me I'd be unimpressed. If they wore the ubiquitous city guard uniform it would be a different matter.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by siegmund on Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:57 am

who is in charge in the city is very confusing

Obviously the King.

You have to understand though force is a strong word and you can't enforce some things on people like there -must- be only one guard city guild. There were more then one in the past which is not really a bad thing if they work together and cooperate now and then while still being their own guild.

Currently either way you only have one real city guard guild which is the Stormwind Regiment (theme and everything). Then you have the Disciples of light which aren't a guard guild but have the ability to arrest and protect in the city from way back before i was about in regard to big threat of a culsit guild and something something dark and so they were given it to add some holyness to things (You'ld have to ask someone who knows the topic better) but DoL doesn't really act fulltime as guards. And other then that House of yore have council grated "Guard rights".

So out of all those Yore guards are the only ones who are under control by someone not themselves.

I don't really think it would make sense if the Blazing shields would come back to have to make them get guard rights from the council (pretty sure the Regiment didn't need to once they revived themselves again) nor really to have to force someone else who wants to make a new guard guild to have to go to the council to get "rights" since then the council holds power which it's not ment to.

Still it usually is easier to join existing guard guilds then making one from scratch (but then again that goes for all guilds), problems mainly arise just when there are none (or too many) of them and then those who aren't guards want to be guards.

Always it's about co-existing not ruling over eachother even if you want to RP some big guy. Of course you sort of try and RP it in a way that makes sense.


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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Lady Eveline Williams on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:12 am

Fenodyree wrote:Fair comment on #1 and to be fair if multiple "guard guilds" all wore the SW city guard uniform then it wouldn't matter.  

As an RPer who is not up to speed with the guild politics on the server (that would be most casual RPers) then it would be best if ALL city guards simply looked the same.

Would it be that hard to have the Yorians wear SW city guard uniforms when on guard?   Without that they lack credibility to me.  If I was RPing a criminal and a Yorian tried to arrest me I'd be unimpressed.  If they wore the ubiquitous city guard uniform it would be a different matter.

To clarify this, not all Yorians are in the guard segment of Yore and thus, not all Yorians have the right to arrest people. The Yorians that are allowed to arrest people for crime, are those that are a part of the Order of the Oak; A branch (or category, division, segment, how you wish to see it.) in our guild. Those, are required to wear a Stormwind tabard and use their TRP3 status to show they are on/off duty, and report directly to Lady Vaalen, guard captain within Yore. One whose plentiful posts and arrests may be found [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As for the looking the same part; Yore currently has no interest in changing their attire for guards to go beyond the changing of the tabard. We do not feel this is required to represent a guard segment, though understand the need for tabards and differentiating yourself. It continues to be a discussion amongst us.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Reynard on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:38 am

Lady Eveline Williams wrote:
As for the looking the same part; Yore currently has no interest in changing their attire for guards to go beyond the changing of the tabard. We do not feel this is required to represent a guard segment, though understand the need for tabards and differentiating yourself. It continues to be a discussion amongst us.

With the utmost respect, this is the bit which is confusing to a newbie. As someone who knows nothing (now that has expanded to 'very little') about the (IC) city politics and history, it seems weird to have people dressed in non-guard uniforms acting as city guards.

As I say, my initial reaction if arrested by a character not dressed as a guard would be "who the BEEP are you to be arresting me?" Smile

Not trying to rock the boat here, just adding some observations from someone who is new and has fresh eyes on the RP scene.

Cheers!

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Myriah on Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:31 am

As Eveline already said is that the Yore guard section do wear the Stormwind guard tabards. But they do not change the rest of the outfit and that is an ongoing ic internal topic.

Oocly anyone can toss a whisper like;
"Hi Smile quick question, why is your char arresting mine? Are you a guard or something? *
And then you'll have your answer oocly. What your char does icly is a totally other thing ofc. Wink
A good tip for new players, write it in your ooc tab on your trp (or mrp, but trp is my personal fav) . Just let people know you could use some help in the case you make a mistake or could use tips to improve rp knowledge and/or skills. Really, everyone understands and is willing to help get new players settle in. It's confusing enough for the regular ppl to follow all storylines and each and every one of us started as a noob at one point.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Maelmoor on Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:23 pm

Where to start, some good points and some which I disagree to.

Stormwind Council

So I was one of those who founded the Stormwind Council ten years ago (yikes!), ever since that day the idea was to provide a structure that would provide RP, being in there for almost the whole time I've seen people and guilds come and go and I've seen the ups and downs. We have changed lot of things over the years (to the better I dare to say) and the Council as it works today is the best structure yet (not saying there can't be further improvements). We have changed so the guilds or organizations have the votes, one each to make it fair and the guilds choses themselves who shall represent them, we have opened up who is able to join, while there is a formal voting the rules states "If an order wants a seat at the Council they may apply during the open session, the Council will then vote to decide, it is recommended that the Council votes in favour unless there are good reasons not to.", the only denials have been orders based in other cities, also the voting is there to prevent ICly a cult or criminal organization from joining, which I reckon is fair.

The Ministers are there to enhance a specific area of RP by creating RP and opportunities for such, while there is a mixed bag of efforts depending who is the Minister I have seen hundreds upon hundreds of hours of RP been created due to various initiatives through the years, could it been done without this structure? Maybe but it has certainly helped.

Feedback and opinions are always welcome but I rather see constructive criticism rather than just "the Council sucks" kind of statements.

Trials
As this was quite a big chunk I share my five cents on it. As for James trial, the trial itself was arranged ten days after he was arrested and he wanted to have it as soon as possible, as it for obvious reason isn't fun to sit in a cell for weeks upon weeks. As he chose Aramal to defend him I see the claim that the defense was unprepared as a communication issue between James and Aramal. Based on the evidence provided it was difficult for Mael to ICly reach any other conclusion than what he did, I also spoke to James oocly regarding the punishment and how we should handle it etc to ensure it was all fair.

Laws, trials and guards adds lot of RP and is a vital part of the RP community but it will always be the toughest one to handle, that's why we need people devoted to this like Eveline, could we remove all this RP? Yes but I cannot see what good it would do?

IC consequences
What your character does and says ICly is what matters (or should be at least) but it also means you have to ICly pay for the consequences, if you say or do controversial things people can ICly react to that, you may end up in prison or in other ways feel the consequences, as long as it makes sense in terms of the RP itself. There will always be players who wants to do things ICly and then are not prepared of the consequences, which I think is wrong.

I believe we all want to be treated by what our characters do and say, nothing else.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last but not least, make your voice heard, here, on realm forums, by whispering people, writing letters etc, feedback, questions and opinions will help to answer questions and will also help to avoid misunderstandings, I do believe we are a friendly RP community where we help each other, so let us continue with that spirit, even if we don't always agree with each others.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Bareans Silversmith on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:20 am

Blackstone, the ninth looks badly in general IC, its looks like blackstone doesn't care about anything there since he does nothing, I can give you many examples but it is pointless now, I told you in the past, if you want the ninth to look any better or blackstone as well, IC actions must be taken, now put a side ooc, ooc I don't really care if the ninth will become necromancers, the point is IC there must be something happening.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Mallucis on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:21 am

I am sorry.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Bareans Silversmith on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:32 am

Don't be sorry, its how they want to be IC, its fine..look at Bareans, people dislike him IC a lot...and I can't blame them, in the past I took it OOC, now I don't because this is Bareans.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Mallucis on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:44 am

I have requested for the thread to be locked. I think, it served its main purpose, which was to share something that was there for quite some time, pressing my chest.

I am sorry I have done it in the manner I did. I promise you it will not happen again.

Thank you for all your responses. Maybe something good may yet come out of it.

If you need me I shall be there.

Mallucis signing off.

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

Post by Skarain on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:44 am

Thread locked by OP request.

EDIT: ...after Ixirar reminds me to actually press the "Lock" button. >_>

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Re: Bitter Lamentations – A confession of a RP Guild Leader

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