You gosh darn goody two shoes.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Kylora on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:30 am

I don't know why! D: New people are scaaawwy

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Zackarn Yorelas on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:35 am

Tell you what, next time your around there I will send someone out to say hello and give you an easy "in" *Nod*

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Kylora on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:39 am

D'aww, thanks! Much appreciated Very Happy

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Skaraa on Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:25 am

Sky Bloodbath wrote:Well put, Skaraa. As a fair noob to rp, I have been standing on the outside looking in for a very long time.
Here is my perspective from a newbies point of view. Firstly, hell no, I don't want my char to die, I haven't played long, but it has taken forever to make friends! No way am I starting that shit over again. My char is my baby! We learned wow together! Would be so unfair to kill her before I even figured out /roll events work!
So I would def dodge Wink
Also, you guys have done this so long I think you forget that not everyone knows the rules, or even the lore that well, its not like there is a quick easy way to learn it either, you all say "you'll pick it up as you go" but it ain't that easy. I know, taken me a year just to get this far. So do whisper....I know it breaks character, but for a struggling noob's sake, help em out.
I also watched the city burn during the cops and robbers escapades, it was Rp, and I wanted to join....but wasn't allowed to (I didn't fit the story line). It was disheartening. Then finally I was suddenly included....omg....was Rend talking to me? Oh wait, he had a knife at my throat.....not quite what I had in mind. So from being ignored to my chars life suddenly in danger, it was a bit much.
Basically I don't think you realize how intimidating your "be prepared to die" version of Rp can be to new people. Or even the fact that many of your chars are not exactly open or friendly.
You say we need some antagonism ingame between guilds to keep things entertaining, and for the most part I do agree, Stormwind is just full of bloody paladins at the moment, and we need something to drive stories, but at the same time, don't be too hard on the heroes and dodgers, they just trying to learn.
Its also really hard to understand ooc and ic at first, I took everything to heart in the beginning. I got really upset when all I wanted to do was talk to someone, but instead they held me hostage. Why were they so mean? I'd never done anything to them. It sure put me off for a while, and I am sure I wasn't alone in that regard.
Then everyone left for AD and I decided to stay, and you know what? You guys got nicer, hehe. Only by finally making friends and chatting ooc have I learned to see the true depths of your characters. Now I get it, now I see it wasn't personal. Ty for the heads up guys *typed sarcastically*
Anyways, love your posts, fascinating and thought provoking, just remember not all rpers have read them Wink
What will really drive Rp in Stormwind is each of you going out of your way to try teach us noobs, include us, help us feel wanted. I know we can be pain staking, insufferable, and down right annoying, but each one of them could be the next generation posting on this site.
Characters who lack depth are boring, is essentially what you are all saying, but they lack depth because their players are unsure how to add depth.
Just something to think about.

That is a beautiful post, thank you for commenting. ^^

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Skarain on Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:26 am

It can also depend much on the environment you end up in when you are new into roleplaying. A friend of mine, Nifty, when she started, she ended up being captured and kept in jail by angry dwarves for it was a criminal guild she had joined. During those two weeks of interrogation and torture, which must have been intense, she had to learn to lie very well to get out of it. That's at least how I remember her tale.

In my own case... When i started roleplaying, I to did not want my character to die, but yet somehow I ended up in the middle of dark death knights, a very scary environment. Then a 2v2 duel, One Mage-DK + My toon vs. a frigging Frostwyrm and a Death Knight. Got almost to frozen to death during that. Then multiple near-death situations as a mercenary. Oh, and being lured into a trap with a sniper aiming at my character if she did not act as they wanted. Then also meeting multiple extremely dangerous people that would qualify as "villain". Oh, and she was made a living bomb along with forceful mind control once. Fun times.

Lots of scary stuff. I did not want my character to die however, so she survived all those encounters alive, abit narrowly. This was mostly by either running, tricking her opponent, finding help in time or by bowing before them, saying: "You are stronger than I. I will bend to your will." She also never fought back after saying that, leaving her perhaps bruised but always alive.

In my experience, this is a way to get away alive from almost any situation when against someone. Least in the Light vs. Dark conflict. In case of darklings, offer to become their minion. In case of lighties, showing repentance and seeking redemption. In case of criminals, I think just co-operating with their demands gets you out alive.

This is speaking IC though. In terms of OOC, there is an unwritten rule of roleplaying that you can not force character death upon another without their permission. They are required to whisper the player and ask if they are okay with their character being killed. You have all the right to say no. As it has been said, it is your character, your game time. There is no God who can decide your character to die without your consent.

I personally have seen people being forced death upon them a few times. This, if anything, is a drama-bomb. The amount of heated argument I've seen to follow, it's huge. You can however chose to ignore their claim and just leave the scene if you feel like it. Sure, the downside is that those who wanted to kill you may outright ignore you from that point on. However, that's all they can do. You only have the right to decide if your character dies or not.

Thus, I at least find it more enjoyable to try to RP out a way when they have no reason to kill my character anymore.

__________

Being new into roleplaying, and wanting to play a Villain or any bad person is indeed challenging. As Zack described in his first post, it's 1 vs. over 9000. If caught, due to this imbalance of sides, one either betrays all their friends, turns into "good" or dies. This however requires the character concept to change drastically.

Alternatively, one needs to be very intelligent and careful of their doings. Either they have made sure their back is always covered, and always with a backup plan to get out of there. That, or they are intelligent about their doings, working subtly from the shadows influencing others.

On the topic of good, bad and villains, Death and Life, I must quote two threads.

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Also one god damn old thread made by me, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Totally off-topic, I miss the Chapter of Holy Anethion. The characters in that fanatical guild were dying like flies, all the way from recruits to the leaders. Sure, they were a lawful evil guild, sort of like villains, but damn they had some style.

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As an added note. If someone is new into Roleplaying, I think it's fair for them to be whispering people OOC and ask for tips, advice and generally let the others know that they are new. Most people are very helpful if you ask them for help. Sure, general behaviour to be beginner-friendly is also good to keep in mind, as pointed out in a few posts above.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Zackarn Yorelas on Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:13 am

My first roleplaying experience was less positive, or more since I'm wired strangely.

I saw a train of three people walking through the Forsaken starting area, I had just rolled my first ever character, so naturally I walked behind them and /train'd

What followed was a torrent of hate I can only describe as verbal bile, followed swiftly by a /ignore from the offended person.

Not to be outdone mind you, I was determined to get to grips with this RP stuff and get revenge. (Disbanding his guild was so satisfying) But after the war was won, I figured...

I actually liked doing this... And the adventure began in earnest!

**Edit: May have derailed this a little, sorry. Back on point! More "Grey" Types!

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Amaryl on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:31 am

This just goes to show.

You can never win - nobody is posting anything interresting for me to reply too Sad the debate thread is deserted. I have no purpose here. :'(


Also - regarding the warlock thing, obvious, you can never win.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Lavian on Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:15 am

Amaryl wrote:This just goes to show.

You can never win - nobody is posting anything interresting for me to reply too Sad the debate thread is deserted. I have no purpose here. :'(


Also - regarding the warlock thing, obvious, you can never win.

Something interesting

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Zackarn Yorelas on Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:09 am

Really? I felt it was quite productive. From what was said I took away some points that I think will serve me well in the future.

Hopefully it also provides some insight for other would be "Grey" types, who up until now had been to worried by the difficulty presented by this type of RP.
Which will encourage more to try it, and that was the goal of the O.P. right?

If there's nothing more anyone feels to add for now, well. Then down it will go.
On another +side. 2 brand new players joined in. Job done, right?  Cool

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Littlepip on Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:24 pm

Don't get me wrong, I won't hate you forever if you dodge. If you can give a reasonable explanation and it makes sense both OOC and IC then I can live with the dodge. The only thing I have a problem with is Lol dodge which is a heinous sin which people should be punished with by the almighty Roll God or Lord Lag.

With the coming of a new generation of roleplayers I wish the best for them, the best community, the best events, the best roleplay experience in general. And in my view a good roleplay experience is one where people aren't frustrated about a lol dodge where it clearly should hit. This can go from anything of throwing a cake at someone from two feet away to a surprise sniper attack. (Which should indeed be asked about permission first because chances are in logic that the sniper wins.)

I also welcome the two who recently posted here, Welcome Kylora and Sky! Don't mind Skarain's massive posts, you get used to them eventually.

I found it great and interesting reading someone new here's opinion and very refreshing and I hope to see the two of you more often around. We now have 52 roleplayers on the realm of thousands! Laughing

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Amaryl on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:36 am

Sir Zackarus Xaviour wrote:Really? I felt it was quite productive. From what was said I took away some points that I think will serve me well in the future.

Hopefully it also provides some insight for other would be "Grey" types, who up until now had been to worried by the difficulty presented by this type of RP.
Which will encourage more to try it, and that was the goal of the O.P. right?

If there's nothing more anyone feels to add for now, well. Then down it will go.
On another +side. 2 brand new players joined in. Job done, right?  Cool

No, the point I was making is that from 2011 to 2014 - there were debate after debates that the hatred against warlocks and deathknights should stop, as they were valuable members of the alliance and that even Varian used them in one the books. It was a very stupid debate. a bunch of people playing warlocks and deathknights wanted to be more than just shunned and just be villains.

And now here we are having the exact opposite discussion.



ergo: You can never win.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Skaraa on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:17 am

Amaryl wrote:
Sir Zackarus Xaviour wrote:Really? I felt it was quite productive. From what was said I took away some points that I think will serve me well in the future.

Hopefully it also provides some insight for other would be "Grey" types, who up until now had been to worried by the difficulty presented by this type of RP.
Which will encourage more to try it, and that was the goal of the O.P. right?

If there's nothing more anyone feels to add for now, well. Then down it will go.
On another +side. 2 brand new players joined in. Job done, right?  Cool

No, the point I was making is that from 2011 to 2014 - there were debate after debates that the hatred against warlocks and deathknights should stop, as they were valuable members of the alliance and that even Varian used them in one the books. It was a very stupid debate. a bunch of people playing warlocks and deathknights wanted to be more than just shunned and just be villains.

And now here we are having the exact opposite discussion.



ergo: You can never win.

Some Warlocks and DKs are good, some are bad. There is more reason to dislike and be suspicious of them than other classes, but they can be as diverse in ethical practise as any other class. Let the players who want to be bad be bad, and the players who want to be good be good. How should your character treat them? However they want to; if they have good experiences with Warlocks then be nice to warlocks. If they have bad experience with Death Knights then be horrible to DKs. There doesn't need to be a consensus on this.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Amaryl on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:11 am

I honestly Don't care about the answer. I'm just commenting on the circular nature of these stupid debates of these posts. Because people will always complain about something one way or the other.

It's the same reason that everytime someone else "runs" the stormwind council, they go all: yeah we're going to reform it into the thing that its supposed to be! Even though Nothing really changes.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

Post by Littlepip on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Honestly this all started as a joke on my side, but just turned a little more serious as some people thought the same and some didn't.

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Re: You gosh darn goody two shoes.

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