RP-PvP Realm rule set

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:36 am

Player versus Player (PvP) realms are designed to allow and encourage open combat between players. Players on these realms are encouraged to resolve cross-faction PvP disputes on their own. The Game Master staff will not intervene in cross-faction player disputes on PvP realms. However, physical harassment committed between members of the same faction on a PvP realm is subject to normal harassment policies and investigation.

If you do not wish to engage in regular PvP combat, select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. PvE realms offer a limited and structured environment for PvP encounters. Players on PvE realms can actively choose when they wish to engage in PvP combat by enabling or disabling their PvP flag at will.

All other In-Game Policies apply to PvP servers. Actions such as inappropriate names, obscene language, and spamming will be addressed according to our normal procedures.

I'm afraid you'll have little luck with this. Any actions taken by GMs will be in contradiction with this part of their policies.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:38 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:
Player versus Player (PvP) realms are designed to allow and encourage open combat between players. Players on these realms are encouraged to resolve cross-faction PvP disputes on their own. The Game Master staff will not intervene in cross-faction player disputes on PvP realms. However, physical harassment committed between members of the same faction on a PvP realm is subject to normal harassment policies and investigation.

If you do not wish to engage in regular PvP combat, select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. PvE realms offer a limited and structured environment for PvP encounters. Players on PvE realms can actively choose when they wish to engage in PvP combat by enabling or disabling their PvP flag at will.

All other In-Game Policies apply to PvP servers. Actions such as inappropriate names, obscene language, and spamming will be addressed according to our normal procedures.

I'm afraid you'll have little luck with this. Any actions taken by GMs will be in contradiction with this part of their policies.

Hence why we are demanding a change/alteration/additions to the rules that protect the RP'er.

No matter how unlikely, its worth trying.

Now, for those who have not yet, like that thread!

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by siegmund on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:39 am

Skarain wrote:One thing that i posted on the thread was that it'd be nice to increase awareness what RP tag for a server means. When you join the server, you are not given any indicator it is more RP'ish than any other server.

Most people do not even have an idea what RP stands out for. Having a pop-up window that you can turn on and off somewhere, be it server selection screen or anywhere would be nice, if it explained what you are exactly throwing yourself in.

More "radical" and ideas like this. Less of the things we've heard before. I sense there is just more hate against griefers and blizzard then there is energy to try and get some kind of progress done.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by siegmund on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:42 am

Dubble post but let me fix something as well.


Hence why we are demanding a change/alteration/additions to the rules that promote the RP'er and RPPvP'er.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:48 am

Krogon Devilstep wrote:
rules that protect the RP'er.

This is addressed in their PVP policy. If you need rules to protect you from PVP, that is already in place. It's called PVE servers. There, the server rules cater to exactly the kind of thing you're trying to achieve: Safety from PVPers.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:09 pm

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:
rules that protect the RP'er.

This is addressed in their PVP policy. If you need rules to protect you from PVP, that is already in place. It's called PVE servers. There, the server rules cater to exactly the kind of thing you're trying to achieve: Safety from PVPers.

Again, no problem with pvp'ers. The problem is -griefers-.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:47 pm

PVP isn't griefing as per Blizzard's policies.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:52 pm

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:PVP isn't griefing as per Blizzard's policies.

Which is the problem, do keep up Wink

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Freemir on Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:42 am

Nothing will change, PvE servers exist for a reason. All you can do is fight back, and please, do fight back. It's rather boring to kill you while you stand there continuing to try and RP as though we're flies.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Rashka on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:58 am

Freemir wrote:Nothing will change, PvE servers exist for a reason. All you can do is fight back, and please, do fight back. It's rather boring to kill you while you stand there continuing to try and RP as though we're flies.

I'm still curious Freemir. If you want your wpvp why do you not just -ask- us? It can be arranged. I've said this before. It'd be funnier for both parts in all honesty.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Freemir on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:02 am

Rashka wrote:I'm still curious Freemir. If you want your wpvp why do you not just -ask- us? It can be arranged. I've said this before. It'd be funnier for both parts in all honesty.

If you want an arranged fight, we can sort it out. It won't stop the ganking, though.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Swan Emperor Arenfel on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:13 am

Freemir wrote:Nothing will change, PvE servers exist for a reason. All you can do is fight back, and please, do fight back. It's rather boring to kill you while you stand there continuing to try and RP as though we're flies.

@Roleplayers: Gear up, fight back, or don't roleplay in contested zones. There's frustration in having your event ruined by PvP, but complaining about things which are - to Blizzard - fair, and immutable parts of Player Versus Player is just going to encourage more players to attack you. They're not going to expend effort on something so minuscule in the grand scheme of their operations as a company.

@PvPers: Gank. Go ahead. Just try to respect the fact that role-play events can take a significant investment from a person or persons involved in their conception, and don't press a skirmish when the attacked party is either not worth your time as competitive players; or is clearly trying to avoid said conflict?

Why can't you both get along? We're all freaks who play weird acid colourful characters while Jaina fucks her dragon bf.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Beladon on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:55 am

This old song and dance again. I agree with Ixirar and Arenfel.

Thought it makes me smile to see horde taking such a strong opposition to this topic now. For years it was mostly alliance focused rpr's raising this. Seems the scales are balancing out more.

I doubt blizzard needs to revise the Ruleset for JUST rprs alone, this selfish notion and approach in posts is most likely why they never get taken seriously. If you want to protect players from "griefers", what about people only interested in questing/pvp content. We don't see them complaining and making these threads,

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ledgic on Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:37 am

This is something of an age old topic, which I highly doubt even needed to be said.

This whole argument blew up when ABOC were causing crap for Alliance RP'ers, a petition was made, the Blizz RP forums had a 70 odd page thread regarding the subject and it was frankly a mess.

A mess that resulted in... nothing. Can't do more than echo Ixirar, Arenfel and Beladon here. Yes, the ganking is obviously more fun for one side than the other, but Blizzard will do nothing to sort ganking because it isn't even a term to them. We knew what we were getting into when we rolled the server type.

The only difference between when we rolled and now is the fact it's much larger scale. The response of "Roll PVE" may be frustrating, but that does not make it wrong.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ralegh on Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:46 am

I remember when the complaining was centered around the hit and run tactics using flying mounts.
I remember some claims of "When Draenor comes along we will woop them since they can't just hide in the air".
I also remember the one who started this entire topic making a post pretty much exactly like that directed at some w-pvper. Guess it didn't work out like that after all.

But yeah... Beladon both on here and on the wow-europe topic pretty much nails it.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:07 am

Ralegh wrote:I remember when the complaining was centered around the hit and run tactics using flying mounts.
I remember some claims of "When Draenor comes along we will woop them since they can't just hide in the air".
I also remember the one who started this entire topic making a post pretty much exactly like that directed at some w-pvper. Guess it didn't work out like that after all.

But yeah... Beladon both on here and on the wow-europe topic pretty much nails it.

To all three of those points, thats what happened. Mithridatism tried to make an 'epic' return just before christmas, but without their flying mounts they didn't realize that they had nowhere to run when RP'ers turned on their surprise attacks. So with Necronos and Dominion we stomped them, to the point they essentially disbanded again, unable to achieve their aim of disrupting RP. Sadly though, more dedicated individuals on a smaller scale make much more conserted efforts, which I will not go into for this reason and that.

While I think it novel that VM think this is all about them, they do infact play a small, tiny, toe sized part in it. and as I have repeatedly stated, our problem is not with PvP'ers, or 'gankers' as you all seem to put it, But Griefers.

Griefers, that who no matter how much you kill them, chase them off, stomp on them, beat them, outnumber them... use every dirty trick in the book to locate, target, disrupt, time waste and off-put. Their not interested in Hk's caused or taken, just as long as they are preventing you from RP'ing. So no Freemir, this is not about you or your guild. If Anything...

Its more about guilds like Mithirdatism, or ABoC. Come and gone, and bounced between factions. and also...

DoL... who have under Vardrek and Copper's illustrious guidance inuldged in such 'humours' tactics themselves.

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I mean, in that one pic alone I see the alt 'boxkiller' that copper used to locate the red blades, I see plenty of OOC behaviour, No IC motive and proof that everything Beladon just posted was out of self serving obligation, not only to himself but his 'griefer' guild mates.

Hypocricy is a fine art. But its a bomb that lights its own fuse.

So Again, to Summarize. Not Interested in VM, or the pvp guilds. Interested in Griefers.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Swan Emperor Arenfel on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:15 am

I'm really confused at why you keep making the same thread/topic/debate/dance show every few months. Yes, griefing is annoying. Nothing will be done about it, and that sucks. Accept it and move oooooooon. C'mon. Please?

People are also shit. People are also hypocrites, but you're derailing your own topic now as well!

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ralegh on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:17 am

Krogon Devilstep wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was all they did stand there and /cower?
Since.... that doesn't really seem to bad or over the top at all, more just them having a quick joke with maybe the hope for some pvp with a guild that at least in the past were rumoured to be quite solid at it and had a no blue-shield rule.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:22 am

Ralegh wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was all they did stand there and /cower?
Since.... that doesn't really seem to bad or over the top at all, more just them having a quick joke with maybe the hope for some PvP with a guild that at least in the past were rumoured to be quite solid at it and had a no blue-shield rule.

Nah, it was quite invasive, purposely meant to disrupt an event.

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There was other occassions in the cross-roads, Dragonmaw port, Bloodgulch and Thrallmar. Was rather petty and shameful to see the guild that Aarian built up used as a means for Vardrek and Copper to get at people they didn't like. And yes, we handed them backsides. But we're not spending all night fighting them so they can gratify their warped ideas, rather than indulging in the events we had planned simply by going blue for an hour or two. That would be stupid.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:28 am

Ralegh wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was all they did stand there and /cower?
Since.... that doesn't really seem to bad or over the top at all, more just them having a quick joke with maybe the hope for some pvp with a guild that at least in the past were rumoured to be quite solid at it and had a no blue-shield rule.

Copper's RBG group has specifically been known to seek out horde RPers and act like a nuisance when the queue got too long for their taste. I don't have proof, and I'm only echoin rumours here but I've heard a lot of people repeat the sentiment. Take it for what you will.

And Krogon, behavior with the sole intent of harrassing RPers is a breach of the RP server ruleset. If somebody, like, I don't know.. Tracks you down and spams items around you and blocks the chat box with /e or whatever, you can report them. You claim that your post is not about PVPers or gankers, but 3 of the 5 points you made in the post are about nothing but PVP.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:31 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:
Ralegh wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was all they did stand there and /cower?
Since.... that doesn't really seem to bad or over the top at all, more just them having a quick joke with maybe the hope for some pvp with a guild that at least in the past were rumoured to be quite solid at it and had a no blue-shield rule.

Copper's RBG group has specifically been known to seek out horde RPers and act like a nuisance when the queue got too long for their taste. I don't have proof, and I'm only echoin rumours here but I've heard a lot of people repeat the sentiment. Take it for what you will.

And Krogon, behavior with the sole intent of harrassing RPers is a breach of the RP server ruleset. If somebody, like, I don't know.. Tracks you down and spams items around you and blocks the chat box with /e or whatever, you can report them. You claim that your post is not about PVPers or gankers, but 3 of the 5 points you made in the post are about nothing but PVP.

Griefers using PvP means.

Seriously, read it, not just gloss over it.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:34 am

Explain. What does this mean? According to the rules, using PVP means can not be counted as griefing. Are they using PVP in such a way that you're unable to fight back? Ie. for example finding a way to attack you in sanctuaries or such. That'd be classed as griefing (and glitching) and would indeed be punishable. Are they abusing quest mechanics that grant them invulnerability/uncounterable benefits that they then abuse against you? What specifically are they doing that you think should be bannable? Becuase if it really is JUST PVP (Ie. run up and engage you in PVP combat, once, twice or seven thousand times) they're playing within the rules and if you're honestly this upset about it you should move to Argent Dawn.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:40 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:Explain. What does this mean? According to the rules, using PVP means can not be counted as griefing. Are they using PVP in such a way that you're unable to fight back? Ie. for example finding a way to attack you in sanctuaries or such. That'd be classed as griefing (and glitching) and would indeed be punishable. Are they abusing quest mechanics that grant them invulnerability/uncounterable benefits that they then abuse against you? What specifically are they doing that you think should be bannable? Becuase if it really is JUST PVP (Ie. run up and engage you in PVP combat, once, twice or seven thousand times) they're playing within the rules and if you're honestly this upset about it you should move to Argent Dawn.

Aaaaaaand you don't get it.

PvP/ganking is one thing. VM for instance will fly/ride in, kill you all some, buzz off. thats to engage in W-pvp. Can't report it, won't report it. Their not trying to ruin RP, just engage in PvP in some form. There is no real malice behind it.

What I am complaining about is that people who no matter what gear, numbers or skill they have, will bash their face against the screen for hours while on a personal crusade, using PvP to disrupt RP. Be it sap/distract spams, hit and run ganking, AboC style tactics, so on, so forth. Making Rp'ers waste time defending themselves instead of doing what they logged on for.

The intent, is the difference. The latter is trying to prevent you Roleplaying and ruin your day. So why is it that people who spam in chat or drop items to disrupt RP can be banned/reported, but people who use PvP to try and achieve the same aim (and 9 times out of ten to better effect) are not? That is the problem. That is what I want changed.

Yes, Its near impossible to verify intent... but a GM can read chat logs between griefers, a GM can look at behaviour, observe it and see what the supposed 'Griefer' is doing. It may not happen instantly or very often. But it is well within their means to put in place a system of warnings and punishments that matches the action.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:53 am

PVP is not against the rules no matter what. If I sap you, it's PVP. If I kill you, it's PVP. If I call my guild to corpse camp your RP hub for a month 24/7 it's PVP. If I fly around the world with the only objective being to relentlessly gank you whenever you step one foot into contested territory, that is PVP

Any action in the game, no matter the intent of the player, that engages another player in PVP combat in any way, shape or form is subject to the PVP rules that clearly state that if a conflict arises as result of PVP actions, the players are supposed and expected to resolve it on their own, through PVP. If ABOC decided they wanted to conquer Gilneas when that was an RP hub, then it's RP PVP. If ABOC decided that they wanted to camp Gilneas untill the Gilneas RPers give up and stop RPing in Gilneas, then it's PVP and ABOC are assholes, but they're doing nothing that's against the rules and no actions can or should be taken against them for this.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:58 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:PVP is not against the rules no matter what. If I sap you, it's PVP. If I kill you, it's PVP. If I call my guild to corpse camp your RP hub for a month 24/7 it's PVP. If I fly around the world with the only objective being to relentlessly gank you whenever you step one foot into contested territory, that is PVP

Any action in the game, no matter the intent of the player, that engages another player in PVP combat in any way, shape or form is subject to the PVP rules that clearly state that if a conflict arises as result of PVP actions, the players are supposed and expected to resolve it on their own, through PVP. If ABOC decided they wanted to conquer Gilneas when that was an RP hub, then it's RP PVP. If ABOC decided that they wanted to camp Gilneas untill the Gilneas RPers give up and stop RPing in Gilneas, then it's PVP and ABOC are assholes, but they're doing nothing that's against the rules and no actions can or should be taken against them for this.

Which was not their intent now, then or in the future. You know, I Know it, we all know it. They were a guild on a crusade to disrupt RP, and they used the guise of RP to make it 'okay' when pressed about it.

You think its acceptable for players of any kind to use PvP to stop RP, just because 'its pvp, its allowed'. Thats foolish beyond belief.

You may as well legalize murder, that way you could say "its fine, its legal". Granted in proportions its out of whack, but its still the same avenue of thought. Whole portions of our community have been harassed off of the server not by PvP'ers, but by Griefers. Learn the difference.

So while you can repeat it until your blue in the face, "Any pvp action is acceptable", it doesn't make it Right. This set of rules is obscene, and not only harms RP but widens the divide between RP'ers and pvp'ers.

The rules need altering, not blinding adhering too just because blizzard can't be bothered to scrutinize it.

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Re: RP-PvP Realm rule set

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