Abuse of lore?

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Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:18 am

I know this might sound like whining and such, but I REALLY need to get some thought on this:

my warlock was fighting a deathknigth, with a pal. I won't say either of their names. It was two against one and the DK didn't want to budge (it wasn't rolls mind you) my pal (who was a warrior) battled with him in meele, but no matter what he did the DK (draenei DK) parried everything, with the argument: I am a draenei, a really old and experienced one. It is logical that I am better than a human. Also no matter what spell I used and what I emoted with my warlock he just used the argument: Death knights can use a anti magic field, you can't use magic on me (even when i used telekinesis (or the wow version of that) and threw a rock on him).

My point here is... that even though these arguments are lore wise... quite viable. SHOULD THIS REALLY BE ABLE TO HAPPEN?

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Terenus on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:20 am

No. He was being an idiot and a bit of a power RPer. Even in PVP DK's anti-magic isn't completely effective and only works for a few seconds, and with regards to the experience aspect - humans and other races have beaten far more experienced individuals in combat in lore. It isn't an excuse.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Garrett on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:21 am

Simple, don't emote-fight with that person again, Death Knights are not immortal.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:24 am

(hello garrett xD) yeah, I know... but when I ignored him he began to whine and made like five other people ignore us... calling us whiners and god emoters

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:26 am

Whoever he is, he sounds like a jerk.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Helmut on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:28 am

Garrett wrote:Simple, don't emote-fight with that person again, Death Knights are not immortal.

Pffft. Lavian is immortal. Fact.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

Helmut wrote:
Garrett wrote:Simple, don't emote-fight with that person again, Death Knights are not immortal.

Pffft. Lavian is immortal. Fact.

Apple bobbing, in holy water... I can see it now...

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:40 am

So the deathknights shouldn't be able to have such a spell aktivated for long? cause they always seem to get angry when I say that they shouldn't be able to, and that I don't understand lore and rune magic. Worst was it when someoen was angry at me,calling me loller for it.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Skarain on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:40 am

Death Knights do have supernatural strength, do not feel physical fatigue and do have access to Rune magic through their Runeblade. By that argument, in a 1v1 melee situation a Death Knight can keep on parrying blows day and night. They also usually wield a two hand sword with surprising ease, due to their supernatural strength, and thus is no doubt a challenge to any seasoned warrior who lacks access to blessed weaponry, enchanted objects or magic of their own (including the power of "Rage", channeling ones physical strength with such willpower (or fury) to achieve extraordinary feats (as Heroic Leap, Colossus Smash, so-on).

Death Knights can use their own magic to counter Magic. That however do have a limited amount of uses. The ingame ability remain active at most for 8 seconds, and not even in Lore we witness Arthas/Lich King or any other Death Knight to have a permanent anti-magical barrier. Using Anti-Magic to negate spellcasters is a viable tactic, but can't be used forever.

Speaking from a theoretical standpoint with the subject of tactics, hurling a Rock at a being with Plate Armor and a dulled sense of pain is not to be causing very much pain. It can however be used to, in case of a large rock enough, to cave in his knee, hit him in the eye or otherwise aim for a vulnerable spot. Another thing that could possibly have been done is to use magic to alter the environment around the Death Knight for the duration of his Anti Magic shield, for example by causing the rocks beneath his feet to melt. No matter if he is immune to the damage of molten rock, it may slow/hamper his movements and open opportunities for your Warrior friend to strike blows when the Death Knight is unbalanced. Laws of physics and things as Gravity still apply, no matter if a person is undead or not.

Just my few cents. Death Knights -can- be roleplayed out as Super-soldiers. They were killing machines and Lieutenants of the Scourge and you start them as level 55 instead of level 1 for a reason. Different DK's do play out their strength differently. They are strong, they can use magic, but they are by no means immortal. For example a Death Knight would struggle to parry blows if there was more than 1 person in Melee, especially if the other one would constantly try to circle for his back.

....i might have written a slightly longer post than intended. Ohwell. Hope it was some use to provide insight.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:45 am

You give good advice as usual, Skarain. Indeed that is kind of what I argued with, but they whent ballistic when i tried to use nature magic to cause roots to ensnare him (I am not sure if that counts as enviromental, and it might also have to do with me playing a warlock) i am just sick of people not being able to get hurt.
(edit, sorry was thinking the wrong way, I meant warlock)

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Vaell on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:51 am

You start a DK at level 55 because their backstory is that they had lives in the Alliance/Horde as soldiers before being killed and brought back.

DKs are stronger than your average Human but the classes of WoW aren't representations of the average person. You're a hero. A Warlock can 1v1 a DK on paper, but obviously it comes down to the context and characters.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Skarain on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:58 am

There will always be people who refuse to take any kind of wounds. It's mostly those who are either new into roleplaying or simply have not been explained the unwritten rules of roleplaying when they were new. Have patience and keep cool. Heated arguments rarely get things anywhere. Help them to understand if you can. If not, you can always walk away.

As for nature magic, it is a touchy subject used by anything else than a Druid. By lore it can be done but it is generally considered rare and thus those who are not as read into the lore may not acknowledge it. I do use minor forms of Nature Magic on my Mage, but that comes out mostly in her research department rather than in active battle-magic.

Another option for "roots" would be Shadowy tendrils (because Warlock) or heck even animated (Transmuted) stone come alive to ensnare someone.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:02 am

I am mostly, myself just a few months old when it comes to RP... (begun in feb) and I can understand the feeling of: THIS IS MY MAIN CHAR, he/she can't be wounded too badly! but that is something people have to learn.

Also, the magic argument is always existing... cause magic isn't THAT much mentioned in the lore. It was someone for example that aargued with my druid can't use shadow magic because she uses nature magic, they are too diffrent to use together...

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by nope on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:06 am

Tnecniw wrote: My point here is... that even though these arguments are lore wise... quite viable. SHOULD THIS REALLY BE ABLE TO HAPPEN?

Even if their lore points were solid, they were pretty much making you a prop for their Mr. Badass scene and dodging everything. That's not good Rp etiquette.

I mean, even if my character is a tank I try to do some give and take with the hits. Sounds like they just want to 'win' everything, eg super anti magic shields forever, getting annoyed at you for shutting down the scene and ignoring them.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:12 am

Yeah, but the worst part was when a guild member of mine got wind of it... he agreed, a death knight should be almost impossible to harm with magic (which made me facepalm so hard)

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Tnecniw on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:21 am

then when I explained that magic thing... he just went on with that he had saronite armor and things. I am not so deep into saronite myself... does it REALLY do that?

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Skarain on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is a strong metal but is is by no means mentioned resistant to any other form of Magic than Nature and Light.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by nope on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:48 am

Lore bits aside, he dodged every bit of magic because anti-magic shields and also dodged a rock because of reasons. You can have lore bits backing up your characters' claim to power (Draenei age, anti magic shields) and still not do the...thing they did that ended in five people ignoring you and some dude dodging everything.

Also what were his reasons for dodging the rock

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by siegmund on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:57 am

If you summon roots as a druid the roots themselves are not magical and much like say a ice lance which basically makes a -ice lance- won't really be negated by a spellshield even though for sake of game mechanics a solid object won't hit you (in those magical like cases).

A lot of things though are of course open to interpretation in anything fight and magicy related.

Usually if you meet such a person and things go south in fights the best way is sometimes to just retreat/fall back. Not all people are open to sugestions or tips either so you can't really change peoples minds if they are set on things.

As for saronite though. I belive here you'll find most answers, though it's best to read more then just the info on the ore itself [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Starts with page 2, post 23. Of course you can look at the content table on the first page as well.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Dolerien on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:46 am

Put it this way, he says he's way more experienced and capable than you.

Who's alive? Who got killed by the Scourge?

As has been said above, DKs were pretty much the elite commanders of the Scourge, and do have some powers greater than that of the rest of us, for a period. Any magic takes its toll, and I imagine DKs are no difference. They may not physically tire, but their skills, magic or otherwise, are limited.

Yes, it's nice to RP that your powerful, but we all have to give and take when it comes to fighting. In terms of RP, no one is more powerful than anyone else. It's only by the good grace of proper RPers that we can actually fight at all.

I repeat. It's all about give and take.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Lavian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:13 pm

This is why I try to avoid fights where I can. People get pretty touchy over DK's in emote battles(and for good reason mind you, not their fault). Many who roll DK in RP are mostly in it for the power play and there's always going to be cases for it because it's "Known" to people that as Skarain said - Deathknights are supernaturally strong and it's easier to relate to a DK for power than any other class because of that perception.

Yet to focus more directly to the OP. That Death Knight was a jackass by the sounds of it. Try to avoid those that seem to endow power over sense. I'm not really sure of the circumstances how you got into the incident however.

Helmut wrote:
Garrett wrote:Simple, don't emote-fight with that person again, Death Knights are not immortal.

Pffft. Lavian is immortal. Fact.

That's why I raid as blood in normal/heroic! So I can be immortal IC ofc!

EDIT: Saronite is for dweebs.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Amaryl on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:52 pm

If you're having an argument about an emote battle, you shouldn't have been in it in the first place.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by The Z on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:04 pm

...I'm just going to guess that this person would probably counter-attack your actions on whatever class he'd happen to be playing, not just with his DK in particular. At least if one would judge from everything I've read so far. Your best try would probably be to just stop RPing with this crazy person.

I had this orc rogue pestering me last year and the whole "U CAN'T TOUCH THIS" went so overboard with that green nut that it eventually turned from annyoing to laughable.

TLDR; Emotefights are hot bullshit 9 times out of 10.


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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Shaelyssa on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:11 pm

omg whateverrrrrrrrrr just power emote right back at him he thinks hes immune to magic WHATEVER lets see if hes immune to a motherfucking dragon transform into like ysera or some badass queen liek that and breathe fire on his punk ass god seriously

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Re: Abuse of lore?

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:42 pm

Shaelyssa wrote:omg whateverrrrrrrrrr just power emote right back at him he thinks hes immune to magic WHATEVER lets see if hes immune to a motherfucking dragon transform into like ysera or some badass queen liek that and breathe fire on his punk ass god seriously

This. Just get as OP as your opponent is. You'll never feel like an emote fight is unfair again. My monk was cornered by a demon lord today, and suddenly he was Yoda on crack. Just go with it and don't lose a fight you don't think you'd like to lose.

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Re: Abuse of lore?

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