[RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Vardrek/Burgen on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:32 am

Vaell wrote:A bit dickish with the pictures and demeaning tone for someone trying to create a PvP campaign, Disciples.


Rarg, all you have to do is alter the original post with "A small naval force carrying the banner of the Horde." and you could just then say it's your people's resources and volunteers aboard. There's no official peace atm, but i'd imagine a full scale attack would piss Vol'jin off and we can't really play with the consiquences of that.


Not in the Disciples, though it's your own fault if you don't find a Murloc Navy funny. And your own fault that you all just missed any twinge in humour at all.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:36 am

Burgen wrote:
Vaell wrote:A bit dickish with the pictures and demeaning tone for someone trying to create a PvP campaign, Disciples.


Rarg, all you have to do is alter the original post with "A small naval force carrying the banner of the Horde." and you could just then say it's your people's resources and volunteers aboard. There's no official peace atm, but i'd imagine a full scale attack would piss Vol'jin off and we can't really play with the consiquences of that.


Not in the Disciples, though it's your own fault if you don't find a Murloc Navy funny. And your own fault that you all just missed any twinge in humour at all.

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You are not funny. You never have been and I deeply doubt you ever will be. Unless some how a kitten disembowls you, then I'd laugh.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Vaell on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:45 am

Yeah, Vardrek, no offence but your humour has no wit. It's just using outdated memes.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Adry on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:50 am

This thread is getting out of hand. Here's a duck I just drew to calm you all down.

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I hope its effects are sufficiently soothing and that we can return to the matter at hand.


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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Rargnasha on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:51 am

Posted the thread before I went to sleep, woke up to four pages! Thanks for the interest everyone!

Now, to adress a few of the points that have been raised:

Is this attack being ordered by Vol'jin/the Entire Horde?:

No, deffinately not. This attack is being carried out by groups within the Horde, being the Red Blades and those who intends to take part in the raids.

The only 'Horde NPCs' that are used for this campaign are the ships and harbours that the communtiy have influenced (Tol Barad, Arathi, Northend).
The rest of it will be Horde player characters who surge into the Alliance lands in small groups to raid and plunder.

But what about the truce?:
The truce is something that I already consider a ragged and torn thing, if you ONLY look at what Blizzard have put out, I can deffinately see where you're comming from that this attack would be completly out of line. However, if we choose not to ignore the various things that have been roleplayed out over the last seven months upon Defias Brotherhood, it starts looking more reasonable.

Already during the Rebellion against Garrosh, where the Horde and the Alliance were actually working together against Garrosh. Such breaches involved several acts of aggression from the Hordes Rebel Rebels, as well as the Alliance conqouring a quarry belonging to the Rebellion forces and claiming it for the Alliance.

And then we have the various breaches upon the truce that have happent during the last two RP-PvP Campaigns.

But the Alliance is stronger than the Horde!:
Again, if we submit completly to what Blizzard have stated and go out from the view that players should not have control over their own characters nor that their characters should be able to have any impact on the world around them, agreed.

Thankfully, on Defias Brotherhood we've always had players who were willing to engage in server lore, ranging from guilds who'd make otherwise empty zones populated, to making councils and gatherings, wars and even diplomatic summits. These are all things that have contributed to making the stiff world of warcraft a more living and breathing thing, rather than a static collection of blocks where the landscape would only change once every four months or so.

During the Northern Rebellion, a RP-PvE and PvP campaign that took 5 from it's beginning in Zoram'gar strand for the Horde and ended in the Hall of the Brave in the Valley of honour, I saw this as the players, both Horde and Alliance, having a large impact on the strength of the Horde, while the Alliance went for taking land as well as making large impacts upon the Kor'kron, the Horde went through Ashenvale, deploying various initiatives to preserve the Hordes strength (Such as sparing captured Kor'kron amongst other efforts) as well as getting a bunch of resources funnelled into them by the Alliance (While still harvesting resources of the Land).

I saw these actions as having an effect on the Horde that would rise after. It would be stronger than what it otherwise would have been (Ofcourse no-where near as strong as if it hadn't been fighting itself)

Following the Northen Rebellion Campaign, we had two others, where the Horde players emerged victorious, which adds to my reasoning that this is something that, while risky indeed, is something that could be pulled off.

Westfall?:
This one will be a rather short one, as it has already been talked through plenty and my opinion echos some of which has already been stated. But in short: Westfall is rather rich in resources, but due to chaos, they are not exploited. Alot of it is also already in use, for purposes such as being sendt to Stormwind rather than stay in the region etc.

The area is also a victim of heavy phasing, which is why I intend to have a few helpful souls map out what phases where. Lastly, while -some- things will go down in Westfall, deffinately, it will not be the majority, we intend to use Duskwood and Redridge as well, plus some additional zones, which brings me to...

Additional Zones:

There are some zones that counts as 'Additional zones', as they are not confirmed to be in use for the campaign yet for various reasons, some of which was posted here, Elwynn forest might be a bit too close to Stormwind for Comfort, and is regularily patrolled by Stormwind troops (Represented by the regiment of Horse Riders). If anything was to happen to Elwynn, it would likely be very small and sneaky teams going in to strike at various places located amongst the fringe of Elwynn.

Stranglethorn Vale would first need some communication with the Gurubashi Empire, to see how much part they want to take part, which is already underway.

Deadwind pass would open up if we'd start using Swamp of Sorrows, and things might be co-ordinated with the mages that resides there.

Lastly, as for Stormwind itself - That's a no go area for rather obvious reasons, and was never considered a feasable target.

There'll be some changes to the original post to clarify some of the topics in the main post that have seemed to rise concern from some of the members here. I expect that those changes will land later today or tomorrow. For now, I'll edit this into the main post.


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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Allonia_Miral on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:57 am

Redridge? You Horde better get off ma lawn! *pulls out pitchfork*

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Odgan / Keag on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:07 am

Wild Tempest will be awaiting you, and we'll be eager to educate you primitives why this reckless idea to try and pillage our lands is a bad one!


But yeah, I personally always saw the RP-WPvP campaigns on Defias as just smaller groups clash. No super big ass armies. And will do the same here, a small group of Horde grow reckless and try their luck in (a hopefully futile) attempt to speed up the recovery of the currently weaker Horde.
And simply that the Alliance players that go fight there, are the first on the scene. While the almighty NPC army amasses in the background.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Amaryl on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:41 am

So there is no alliance organiser yet?

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:45 am

Amaryl wrote:So there is no alliance organiser yet?

There is! ... I forget who Rarg said it was though.... >_o''

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Rargnasha on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:21 am

There is! Added it under the Battlegroups for now.
Hint: It's starts with R and ends with Alegh


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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Rmuffn on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:30 am

When the lore is like it is, making smaller skirmishes away from Alliance territory would be far more logical than an actual assault on the lands around the capital. Easier to get away with.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by erwtenpeller on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:43 am

That is exactly what this campaign is aiming for. Fringe attacks.

The 10th is a bit soon, isn't it? At least two weeks advance notice would have been nice. Oh well.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Sanara on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:24 am

erwtenpeller wrote:That is exactly what this campaign is aiming for. Fringe attacks.

The Kingdom of Stormwind proper (Westfall, Duskwood, Redridge) are hardly "fringe" territories. Swamp of Sorrows, Stranglethorn Vale, Burning Steppes, Wetlands... There's plenty of more suitable territories. I personally favour the Wetlands, as they are closest to where the Horde won their prior victories (TB and Arathi) and has plenty of coast for landfall.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Terenus on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:43 am

If you all would kindly look at the map of Eastern Kingdoms, you'd see that Stormwind harbour is right next to Westfall. Westfall has lighthouses. Stormwind harbour is in sight of Westfall's waters. Even any ships going to arrive there would be spotted, either by the city, or locals. A pillaging run simply is not possible, as any ships would have an immediate response by a much superior, and larger force since you argue it is small scale. Any forces would be crushed.

Also, since when was westfall a rich untapped resource? It's the poorest part of the kingdom as made evident by the hundreds of homeless npcs, thugs etc.

And by the way, learn the definition of Ad Hominem. I insulted you, whilst addressing your argument, not Ad Hominem - stop bitching. I'm done, the forums are clearly determined to ignore the lore just for the sake of WPVP in a shitty OOC location regardless.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Rargnasha on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:52 am

Since you seem to have made your mind without bothering to properly read what people have been writing, dont let the door hit you on your way out.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Terenus on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:54 am

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Sanara on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:57 am

Rargnasha wrote:Since you seem to have made your mind without bothering to properly read what people have been writing, dont let the door hit you on your way out.

It's not often I say this but this quote literally applies to yourself just as well. There are quite legitimate reasons for saying this campaign is poorly concieved, and you're covering your ears pretending they don't matter when, in truth, this sort of thing only serves to undermine the whole concept of ongoing and meaningful RP-PvP campaigns.

If the lore has no impact on a force's movements and capabilities, what's stopping any given Alliance guild from, I dunno, conquering Lordaeron or Durotar just by sheer OOC determination? It's not even a slippery slope kinda deal, it's the same idea; "What would happen lorewise has no bearing on our characters, so what we RP just goes".

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Adry on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:05 am

Sanara wrote:
Rargnasha wrote:Since you seem to have made your mind without bothering to properly read what people have been writing, dont let the door hit you on your way out.

It's not often I say this but this quote literally applies to yourself just as well. There are quite legitimate reasons for saying this campaign is poorly concieved, and you're covering your ears pretending they don't matter when, in truth, this sort of thing only serves to undermine the whole concept of ongoing and meaningful RP-PvP campaigns.

If the lore has no impact on a force's movements and capabilities, what's stopping any given Alliance guild from, I dunno, conquering Lordaeron or Durotar just by sheer OOC determination? It's not even a slippery slope kinda deal, it's the same idea; "What would happen lorewise has no bearing on our characters, so what we RP just goes".

Rather than taking an opportunity for some abject criticism, how about you offer something genuinely constructive to the floor? If you see holes in this idea, then it would probably be a better idea to point them out than to simply act demeaning for the sake of it.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Charlie Blazesong on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:23 am

Adry wrote:
Sanara wrote:
Rargnasha wrote:Since you seem to have made your mind without bothering to properly read what people have been writing, dont let the door hit you on your way out.

It's not often I say this but this quote literally applies to yourself just as well. There are quite legitimate reasons for saying this campaign is poorly concieved, and you're covering your ears pretending they don't matter when, in truth, this sort of thing only serves to undermine the whole concept of ongoing and meaningful RP-PvP campaigns.

If the lore has no impact on a force's movements and capabilities, what's stopping any given Alliance guild from, I dunno, conquering Lordaeron or Durotar just by sheer OOC determination? It's not even a slippery slope kinda deal, it's the same idea; "What would happen lorewise has no bearing on our characters, so what we RP just goes".

Rather than taking an opportunity for some abject criticism, how about you offer something genuinely constructive to the floor? If you see holes in this idea, then it would probably be a better idea to point them out than to simply act demeaning for the sake of it.

That, this far its complain just to complain. If someone oposes something. They better have another suggestion in mind.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Terenus on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:24 am

I've offered constructive criticism into not only lore problems but why OOC it's a bad idea too, yet it seems to be treated as just bullying Rarg's idea, or people like to go "YOU DIDN'T READ IT" just because what they have said is nothing new to change my stance over. People need to get over themselves in that respect.

I've suggested that STV be a better choice, and Wetlands was suggested by Sanara. Wetlands would be great as it could maintain the aim, pillaging, it's an actual fringe of the Alliance, and isn't right next to the powerhouse that is Stormwind. It makes sense in every way, and more so due to the fact the previous campaigns were in Northrend, Tol Barad - and Arathi Highlands. The north, so it would make more sense there, as well as having solidified power in Arathi they could start running pillages easily into the Wetlands.

But, of course, this will be treated as just more bullying, since the very idea of constructive criticism in this thread seems to be one not very well understood, and is made to look like insulting.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Adry on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:26 am

Terenus wrote:I've offered constructive criticism into not only lore problems but why OOC it's a bad idea too, yet it seems to be treated as just bullying Rarg's idea, or people like to go "YOU DIDN'T READ IT" just because what they have said is nothing new to change my stance over. People need to get over themselves in that respect.

I've suggested that STV be a better choice, and Wetlands was suggested by Sanara. Wetlands would be great as it could maintain the aim, pillaging, it's an actual fringe of the Alliance, and isn't right next to the powerhouse that is Stormwind. It makes sense in every way, and more so due to the fact the previous campaigns were in Northrend, Tol Barad - and Arathi Highlands. The north, so it would make more sense there, as well as having solidified power in Arathi they could start running pillages easily into the Wetlands.

But, of course, this will be treated as just more bullying, since the very idea of constructive criticism in this thread seems to be one not very well understood, and is made to look like insulting.

Except what I said wasn't even directed at you. I'm aware you're offering constructive criticism and never stated otherwise. Would another duck drawing keep you happy?

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Terenus on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:31 am

Adry wrote:
Terenus wrote:I've offered constructive criticism into not only lore problems but why OOC it's a bad idea too, yet it seems to be treated as just bullying Rarg's idea, or people like to go "YOU DIDN'T READ IT" just because what they have said is nothing new to change my stance over. People need to get over themselves in that respect.

I've suggested that STV be a better choice, and Wetlands was suggested by Sanara. Wetlands would be great as it could maintain the aim, pillaging, it's an actual fringe of the Alliance, and isn't right next to the powerhouse that is Stormwind. It makes sense in every way, and more so due to the fact the previous campaigns were in Northrend, Tol Barad - and Arathi Highlands. The north, so it would make more sense there, as well as having solidified power in Arathi they could start running pillages easily into the Wetlands.

But, of course, this will be treated as just more bullying, since the very idea of constructive criticism in this thread seems to be one not very well understood, and is made to look like insulting.

Except what I said wasn't even directed at you. I'm aware you're offering constructive criticism and never stated otherwise. Would another duck drawing keep you happy?
Was more directed at everyone who's bitching, and Rarg being a fair bit silly, didn't mean to draw you into that post, sorry!

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Adry on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:36 am

Terenus wrote:Was more directed at everyone who's bitching, and Rarg being a fair bit silly, didn't mean to draw you into that post, sorry!

Spoiler because people must be getting sick of images:
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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Rargnasha on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:38 am

You're clearly proving that you're not reading what has been written Sanara. The Horde is not going to claim any land, infact, it has been clearly stated that at the end of the campaign, Horde forces will be forced to retreat. We have -plenty- of times had Alliance in the lands around Orgrimmar, which have usually been welcome OOC'ly.

As for lore not having an impact on the characters movement, feel free to read the post where I adress exactly why this campaign is possible.

As for Terenus, some of your points are valid and are actually being taken into consideration, such as movement upon the sea with the Stormwind navy involved, however - When you lace useful points with insultswhile ignoring arguments made earlier in the thread, you give off an extremely negative image of yourself and your post, which is likely the reason why alot have responded as dismissively to you as they have.

I think that you two, that being Terenus and Sanara, should sit down and have a long, hard, time of thinking on how you condone yourselves, even if it's over the internet, before you make another post in this thread.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

Post by Terenus on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:48 am

Rargnasha wrote:You're clearly proving that you're not reading what has been written Sanara. The Horde is not going to claim any land, infact, it has been clearly stated that at the end of the campaign, Horde forces will be forced to retreat. We have -plenty- of times had Alliance in the lands around Orgrimmar, which have usually been welcome OOC'ly.

As for lore not having an impact on the characters movement, feel free to read the post where I adress exactly why this campaign is possible.

As for Terenus, some of your points are valid and are actually being taken into consideration, such as movement upon the sea with the Stormwind navy involved, however - When you lace useful points with insultswhile ignoring arguments made earlier in the thread, you give off an extremely negative image of yourself and your post, which is likely the reason why alot have responded as dismissively to you as they have.

I think that you two, that being Terenus and Sanara, should sit down and have a long, hard, time of thinking on how you condone yourselves, even if it's over the internet, before you make another post in this thread.

I think that is very funny, and highly hypocritical considering the only response to these comments was telling me to not hit the door on the way out. If you think the way -I- condone myself is bad, look to others who at the first sign of any criticism started to jump on Burgen. I never ignored arguments, a lot were either pointless or I addressed in that post I made in a general fashion. If I have to quote every single post, which is a ridiculously naive concept to believe in, then the post will be unnecessarily long. Anyone with any knowledge of forum posts will acknowledge that it is a stupid thing to do.
And if you feel upset or hurt by me being rude to those who are also rude, then you should just grow up. I will treat people with respect, when they deserve it. Not when they just rush in to a thread, see a post by Burgen and go "OH CLASSIC BURGEN COMPLAINING".
Do not act so condescending and think yourself far above this, because you have not conducted yourself particularly well either Rargnasha. A single post of reassurance that doesn't actually address any arguments either - how hypocritical -, and a post that is just being arsey is not proper conduct. Is my fashion of being blunt and brutally honest with my thoughts negative? Perhaps, but people also need to stop being oversensitive.

If you criticize a lack of conduct, don't just pin on two of the people who are against a few aspects of the campaign - at least have the courtesy to tell everyone to stop acting in that fashion - especially from your own guild members such as Krogon.

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Re: [RP-PvP] The Lion's Den 10th - 18th of May.

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