okay

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Re: okay

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:40 pm

Feral / Blackfall wrote:Going to address a few points for the sake of devil's advocacy.
Well it would indeed be a bit harsh to dictate these "guidelines" as rules for roleplaying a Worgen, and that's honestly not my intentions with this.
For one thing, you are being a little too critical of some of my points, you seem to be a little agressive like with the point of mentioning to what extend you can act like a dog or a wolf.

Same with the Strenght aspect, I never meant to dictate what you can and what you cannot do.
In fact I kind of want it to be clear that the whole point of the thread is to Guide people into looking at Worgen RP a little differently than what tends to go around for the norm.

Yes you can RP you Worgen as someone who's capable of lifting a Horsewagon, but my question to you would be - why would you?
Are you really going to deny the fact that this will put you at quite an advantage ahead of your fellow non-worgen rp mates?

You make it sound like I'm assuming people can't think for them selfs?

My intentions with most of these things were to give a sort of idea of what is tolerable and what isn't.
And no I'm not one to call out such "rules" but I would like to see a fair distribution of character traits around strength and in terms of how unique your character is.
Not saying that anyone shouldn't reach for the stars and try to become an RP superstar on Defias, but it's just very likely that it will end up working against you as a roleplayer.

Yes I made some mistakes, and no they are not Alliance.
Would you still consider Arthas alliance when he became the Lich King?
Or any of the races you see among the Alliance, among the Twilight's Hammer a part of the Alliance?
If you do, then alright. By all means, consider the Grizzly Hills Worgen a viable option for your background choice.


Finally, no I'm not offended, I'm just standing up for my own guide, so likewise there's a bit of a rough tone to my reply here.
One thing is correcting me for flatout writing incorrect infomation in this regard, but tearing me down because you think my view on the subject isn't valid or too biased is not exactly constructive either.

What did you expect anyway, that I wouldn't include my own personal views on MY guide? :0)
Besides, people can choose to intepret in whatever way they want.
If they didn't see it fit for inspiration for their own character, then they can just choose to ignore it or disregard it should they feel like it.
Obviously I did encourage people to correct me should they find anything completely in the wrong, like with how I argued that you wouldn't use "Hell" because it doesn't exist in WoW, but sharing an opinion on the matter and downright correcting are two different things, but I'll go ahead and assume that your reply belongs to in the first category.

And no, Worgen Death Knight are not Gilneans.
They might have been once, but the moment they became a part of Pyrewood village and a prisoner of Arugal's experiments they were no longer of Gilneas.
Anyone beyond the Greymane Wall is about as Gilnean as Taiwan's a part of China.
And as for your idea on the Wolfcult members being turned over to Arthas, they would almost most certainly have been an enemy of the Alliance and the Ebon Blade for that matter...
But let's not get another sidetracked issue going here.

If you want to call yourself a Gilnean Patriot when roleplaying your Worgen Death Knight I'm not gonna stop you.

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Re: okay

Post by Feral / Blackfall on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:32 am

As far as Silverbrook goes, the ones who resisted the Wolfcult of Arugal were turned undead at the Westbrook (Alliance-run) mines. They're humans and hostile to Horde, as well as being attacked by orcs, and is assisted directly by Alliance camps, so I see absolutely no reason that they couldn't have had plenty of interaction to send Worgen back and forth, whether they're tagged "alliance" or not (it never actually says, anywhere).

And Pyrewood and Ambermill both were part of the Kingdom of Gilneas; just because of a wall being up for a few years, I'd not say they suddenly aren't Gilneans culturally Smile

As a sidenote, the night elves' cure for "controlling" the curse isn't a potion; there's a detailed ritual involved. There's more on it in one of the books, but you can see a basic version in the starting zone.

You are pretty defensive, and that's fine, if I'm coming across aggressive I'm sorry--it's not my intent. My point is just that I'd not lay them down as rules, nor call them mistakes for not adhering to the opinions stated in the original post, which is what you did. I'm trying to make the point that your guide can be improved by tweaking some of the things in it, and rephrasing that things are guidelines rather than rules.

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Re: okay

Post by Rae Wulfgnar on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:57 am

There are no Worgen Paladins for obvious reasons!

I do have a few questions though, since I'm not really keen on Worgen lore or how some players rp it.

Is it possible to get bitten outside of gilneas and become a normal, free thinking Worgen? The reason I ask this is because in the Gilnean questline you get bit and become feral, then cured. So if you are bit outside of Gilneas wouldn't the person be feral and an enemy? Since Gilnean worgens are "cured" wouldn't their bite not affect people? How long did the curse last for in Gilneas before they become cured? I'm guessing the entirety of the questline.. (a day or two possibly?)

"You are not a Dog or a Wolf you are a Worgen!" No, they would be a human with a curse. This refers back to my question on how long the curse lasted in gilneas.

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Re: okay

Post by siegmund on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:47 pm

Is it possible to get bitten outside of gilneas and become a normal, free thinking Worgen? The reason I ask this is because in the Gilnean questline you get bit and become feral, then cured. So if you are bit outside of Gilneas wouldn't the person be feral and an enemy? Since Gilnean worgens are "cured" wouldn't their bite not affect people?

Sadly I wouldn't know if being Feral or Cured affects how the bite transfers, but there might be something I just don't know any facts on it. Most people RP it least as you are feral if you get bit by anyone.

Not sure if there is a diffrence between getting bit by a feral or cured, BUT i will continue on this question later regarding someting i find strange and maybe related...

How long did the curse last for in Gilneas before they become cured? I'm guessing the entirety of the questline.. (a day or two possibly?)

Ah you mean from when things started to get furry again in Gilneas. Well I'm unsure but I got the Comic so i can check that again see if there is any info in that, but from what i remember it actually was happening for a while, certain people dissappered and turned worgen before the actual thing you see happen in the game.

One can check the Wolfcult activities and so forth on that people were turning way before the questline you see in the game so i'm unsure how many days.

And NOW!

Since you mentioned diffrence between getting bit by a cured/feral one. With drinking blood from a cured you seem to not go feral, while sure on the not feral somewhat due to the Forsaken questline in Silverpine, not sure if they can morph to human without taking the ritual and other stuff...

But it may be related to biting or not.



EDIT: There are a few partial cures for worgen (Not counting being able to transform to human) two least, one in the questline and another in a comic far as suposedly a Calming potion or something I forget.

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Re: okay

Post by Raenmar on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:29 pm

You can regain control of yourself (not be feral anymore) with the potion. The ritual allows you to change form.

So if you did get bitten outside of Gilneas, you'd initially be feral until a helpful passer-by either offered you a potion or tied you up and took you to the magic tree.

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Re: okay

Post by Ralegh on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:27 am

Feral / Blackfall wrote:As far as Silverbrook goes, the ones who resisted the Wolfcult of Arugal were turned undead at the Westbrook (Alliance-run) mines. They're humans and hostile to Horde, as well as being attacked by orcs, and is assisted directly by Alliance camps, so I see absolutely no reason that they couldn't have had plenty of interaction to send Worgen back and forth, whether they're tagged "alliance" or not (it never actually says, anywhere).
.
The entire questline about the trappers goes into getting them to help the alliance before you realise they are all worgen.
And then stuff gets real murdery!
Quest text wrote:Our response must be immediate. Decisive. We must teach these savages not to cross us.
Our scouts have located what's left of the Silverbrook trappers... you know, the ones you didn't get to douse in flames. Apparently they're blockading the road to the southeast... perhaps they're trying to box us in.
Head to the Forest's Edge post and take care of them. Their leader's reported to be a man named Vladek... make sure he's dealt with.
So the trappers and all their wolfcult buds were pretty much enemies of the alliance.
But lots can have changed in the last few years since the LK and Arugal went out of the picture.
So I figure you could totally play a trapper, an ex-wolfcult member, or whatever grizzly hills type worgen you want.
Just consider that at some point or another, all of the grizzly hill worgen were enemies of the alliance.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote: How long did the curse last for in Gilneas before they become cured? I'm guessing the entirety of the questline.. (a day or two possibly?)
If you look at the worgen.. cinematic thing you can see that the moon goes from being full to a cresent, between turning and capture.
So a bit more than a day or two. I would guess maybe a week or couple of weeks.
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Re: okay

Post by siegmund on Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:14 am

If you look at the worgen.. cinematic thing you can see that the moon goes from being full to a cresent, between turning and capture.
So a bit more than a day or two. I would guess maybe a week or couple of weeks.

Good one! Didn't think of that. In the comic it doesn't specifically say but says least:

"How long's it been now?"
"Time seems to have crawled since the attack. One day blends into the next"

So reinforces that.

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Re: okay

Post by Feral / Blackfall on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:41 am

RE: Wulf's questions:

Is it possible to get bitten outside of gilneas and become a normal, free thinking Worgen?

No reason why not, you'd just need to get the cure done, or moonleaf for temporary measures.

As far as whether the bite passes the curse once cured, nothing mentions that at all.  Sieg covered this, because lorepro, just backing it up though.

As for time taken, with the questing itself, if you watch the debuff (bite debuff), goes through 3 phases or so, over the course of several "IC" days (if I recall right) before you even change.  AFTER you get caught, the moon phases are shown changing, I think?

The thing to remember, too, is that Blizzlore is an idiot.

The Silverpine quest that explains how and why Worgen are immune to necromancy in a sense makes... no sense.  They drink worgen blood and IMMEDIATELY change, with apparently no need for a cure at all.

You have ferals who can't control themselves -at all-, then the ferals in Duskwood who are apparently warlocks and shadow priests, casting actual summoning spells--yet these are the Night Elven druids summoned from the Dream, and their Duskwood human civilian victims (i.e. why are they shadowcasters...?)?

It's a mishmash of lore, half of it's retconned and it's not meant for roleplay.  I'd take it all with a few heaping tablespoons of salt xD

And regarding the undeath thing, it ties closely in: why are worgen immune to being raised by anything bar Greater Valkyr or the Lich King, when death knights can be raised by a. groups of necromancers, b. the lich king, c. EITHER valkyr type, and d. other death knights?  What the hell is the difference?  Just 'power level?'  Does that mean that the groups of necromancers capable of raising FROSTWYRMS from dead blue drakes can't resurrect one worgen death knight...?  The devs explained that part of it is down to the cure, yet the worgen in that Silverpine quest have not had the cure yet.

It's a pretty silly thing to overthink, once you think about it.

Edit:  I just thought about this, too.  If Arugal's the one who made the druidic form into a curse that could be spread by bite, why the hell are the worgen in Duskwood spreading it by bite?  They're sure as hell not all night elves.  Did I miss something obvious here?  (Further editing for Sieg below!)  --What I mean here is this.  It was originally just a druidic (pack, then Scythe) form.  (Yey retcon lore...)  Then Arugal, building on the research of Ur iirc, formed this into a curse somehow (I have no idea on details) as well as pulling the sleeping druids in from the Dream to help defend the Gilnean wall.  Whatever they did, it began to infect the actual Gilneans bitten as well--that includes Pyrewood folk--and Arugal in his grief retreated to his keep, with his new puppypets.  Yet... there's worgen in Duskwood.  Who spread this by curse.  Now, in old lore at least, I think it was Arugal who made the worgen into a spreadable curse--previously, Velinde called them in with the Scythe, while Arugal changed it to a magical curse?  With the new lore I assumed that still stood, since druids cannot just spread their forms via biting.  But... retcons, so I'm not sure.  But it then begs the question, how are the worgen in Duskwood spreading further?

As another retcon note, the original worgen were noted for being savage but also intelligent -and were often dark magic casters- when they were drawn in from their "nightmare world."  The worgen in Duskwood still fit the bill, there, yet night elf druids are hardly likely to have been shadowcasters.

(And as a sidenote I mentioned the cure providing added immunity myself already, but I mean, it just makes little sense when you consider the fact that -regular druids- have no immunity...)

Rae Wulfgnar wrote: How long did the curse last for in Gilneas before they become cured? I'm guessing the entirety of the questline.. (a day or two possibly?)

As said, not too long, most likely. But, if you are asking how long a worgen can be "feral" before a cure, the answer is indefinitely. There's at least a few in Felwood who were original night elven ones, cured later on of their "feral" ness, and Jitters in Duskwood is a feral for quite some time (years?) before Gilneans arrive--and their purpose there is to cure Duskwood ferals.


Last edited by Feral / Blackfall on Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:13 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Re: okay

Post by siegmund on Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:20 am

If Arugal's the one who made the druidic form into a curse that could be spread by bite, why the hell are the worgen in Duskwood spreading it by bite?

What? What? Say what? Arugal what? Please explain what you just said there becouse i'm just baffeled at what you said.

Far as the immunity i think it's explained somewhere, just that when you take the ritual thing amplifies that effect of it being even way more harder to raise one, or something.

So i'll quote this:

With the curse comes also an resistance to other curses and diseases[5] and thus immune to the depravity of the Forsaken[3]. The worgen curse also makes raising them into undeath far more difficult than it is for normal humans. The worgen curse has roots in both the Emerald Dream (through the wolf Ancient, Goldrinn) and the holy power of the goddess Elune. In addition, those worgen who imbibe the waters of Tal'doren — through the ritual they undergo to maintain balance between the worgen curse and their humanity—have a further resistance to the corruption of undeath.

Edit:
Just 'power level?
IT'S OVER 9--- Doubt i'd be only that and pretty sure the LK had most fingers in things anyway.

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Re: okay

Post by siegmund on Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:29 am

Also, if we "cheat" and use IRL moon stuff...

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Add what you see in the cinematic + what they say in the comic + whatevertime till you finaly reach the tree, day, two? Dunno.

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Re: okay

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