Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

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Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Alastir on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Hey Defias RP.

So after an unfortunate event with people who will remain nameless... And a some what pointless argument who possibly the most disturbing "long term" Rper i have met. i find it apauling that this concept seems to be lost and even more so when the earlier mentioned long term RPer refuses to acknowledge the truth behind my point. So here it is. And i hope that all the common sense in the world is not lost. Flame it if you will but as i said i refuse to use names here so for that purpose the people involved will not be slandered.

Right! Now the mini-rant is out of the way. The concept that seems to of been lost.

God Emoting and Similar Situations

Now we all know what a God Emote is, For those that do not i will give a short example.

"Player A stabs Player B in the throat and kills him dead" - This emote is considered a god emote because of two facts, Ironically none of them are the players death... The first is "Player A STABS". This is a god emote because it tells the world that he is simply stabbed, Not an attempt but an ACTUAL action. "And kills him dead". This is a determined outcome that cannot be revoked. The player is left with one choice. Oh.. Im dead!

So to the Similar situations. Just as that Emote is a God Emote. This is a God Controlled Situation.

"Player A, Snatches the metal from the ground" - Already a defined action. No attempt, or tries etc. Meaning that the people around it have to accept it as fact.
"Player A gives to Player C and orders them to Teleport it "Far Away"" - Another defined action.
"Player C Teleports the item out of his hand to an unknown location" - Another defined action.

Now that item belonged to Player B and has not only had an item stolen from him but lost it in the world without an ounce of an idea where to look for it. A theft that Player B may not of wanted but is not left without choices. And is forced to take it has an event in their timeline.

Now okay, Player B could of used that and began a search and lost him self in the wild looking for something. or this ENTIRE thing could be avoided by talking to Player B...

Player A Whispers: Oh, Can i steal that?
Player B whispers: I need it for a plan that i have, What you thinking of doing with it?
Player A Whispers: I could give it to Player C, Tell him to send it to somewhere in the world and you could RP finding it or something.

Now Player B has two options. And an ability to control its outcome. He could reply with

Player B whispers: Sure, Lets send it to Pandaria and i can go there to Icly look for it.
or
Player B Whispers: Id rather not. I'm planning something for it and need it back if you wouldn't mind.

This allowing Player B to have the option to control the outcome of the event (not the event its self) but the end result is the same as putting the word "Tries to" or "Attempts to" in an emote. So my question is how is this hard to understand by the people involved tonight? Why is this simple thought not even part of the RP community on a whole. You wouldn't just kill someone Icly without asking them so why would you steal from them too?


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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Iriel Silversong on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:13 pm

God emote.... Is when is not attempted.... and you are forced to take hit..


But when attempted to be hit and you EMOTE back means you accept to react to that emote, in other words YOU accept the consequence by roleplaying along

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Vaell on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:32 pm

For anyone reading this, I am Player C.

Summary: Stormy was given a key by his character. She tried to give it back. He wouldn't take it. She threw it on the ground. Cathee picked it up and gave it to Vaell, telling him to send it far away. His character said not to ICly, Vaell did it anyway. Good rp came out of it and then I learn he's spamming Iriel with whispers (she came in at the end) and complaining we're god emoting because he failed to tell anyone OOCly that he didn't want it to happen.

No one stole it, the rp was open when he handed it to Stormy.

Don't come onto the forum bitching about others like a fucking child in future. A simple OOC whisper would have sufficed.

/Thread

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Izzifix on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:40 pm

I enjoyed how the situation was handled IC, even if stuff may have happened fast and you ended up in a situation you didn't bargain for.

I'd suggest solving it IC. Find yourself a mage to try and narrow down the area Vaell could have teleported it to. Find brave mercenearies or freelance explorers, make a team and have fun doing an event or two or three trying to find and reclaim it.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Rae Wulfgnar on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:47 pm

Why are people so afraid of spontaneous rp!  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Celeste/Ainathiela on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:10 pm

What your describing sounds terribly scripted, which just doesn't breed good Roleplay in this (Or in my humble opinion any) circumstance. If your wanting a pre-determined outcome of events then you should be the one telling people that before Roleplaying with them. People are not mind-readers!

I think the comparisons you've drawn between god emoting killing someone and picking and teleporting something off the ground are irrelevent in this case. And un-necessary. But that's just my two cents.

and this:
I'd suggest solving it IC.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Alastir on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:25 pm

Vaell wrote:For anyone reading this, I am Player C.

Don't come onto the forum bitching about others like a fucking child in future. A simple OOC whisper would have sufficed.

/Thread

I didn't come onto the forum in order to bitch about it. I admit the name of the post is sort of hinting to it. But my experience in the past on Defias in Vanilla as part of the Shining Strand and Sin Belore in TBC is that if you was going to do something that crossed a line you would consider the other players situation. A simple whisper to that player and you could decide on the severity of the outcome.

Things have changed and a discussion with he players involved illuminated that. People seem to want more spontaneous RP and don't seem to consider the out come and its effects as an actual alteration but the beginning of something else and that it should fall on my head in this situation to say something. Fair enough. Lesson learnt for the future. Just wanted to see if this was a general consensus or not.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Thelos on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:52 am

Here's the cold, hard truth:

People are dicks.

You're not going to enjoy role-playing with everyone. That's okay: you shouldn't have to. I advice that, instead of trying to spin a web of rules that are impossible to enforce and will only overcomplicate things, potentially (perhaps inevitably) leading to more drama in the future, you just avoid role-playing with the people you didn't enjoy playing with.

Sound simple, right? Common sense; perhaps too good to be true?

Some people are dicks; others are cool. Avoid the dicks, seek out the cool ones. Once you've spotted a dick, run; once you've spotted a cool guy, add him to your friends and hang out with him.

That's my common sense.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Helmut on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:53 am

God Emote threads are fun!

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Thelos on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:03 am

Calling people thin, flat-bellied, scrawny, skinny or any variation thereof usually works fairly well on Pandaren; the reverse, i.e calling people thick, round-bellied, fat, bloated or heavy works really well as a compliment.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by siegmund on Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:50 am

Not the best example but say I DM an event and have a few scripted things and want people to do X or Y but the "adventurers" decide to go do Z (Which you totaly didn't want). But that's just it nothing ever goes as planed.

People seem to want more spontaneous RP and don't seem to consider the out come and its effects as an actual alteration but the beginning of something else and that it should fall on my head in this situation to say something.

Sounds a lot like your character giving a item to someone who could have done -anything- with it! Not a smart move or it wasn't aproached in a smart enough or thought trough manner.

Characters do what they do it can't be always what you OOCly want them to do. Even less so if they OOCly don't know it's -that- important (And they would perhaps do the same if it happened again)

Yes it's a dick move IC but as most already sugested a few things ^ on how to handle it that's my 2 cents.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Iriel Silversong on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:06 am

Yes it's a dick move IC but as most already sugested a few things ^ on how to handle it that's my 2 cents.


^


IC behaviour

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Cathee Piner on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:36 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but forcing a scripted story on RPers randomly on the streets is kinda in the line of godemoting also Wink. You can't just expect shit to work the way you want, that's not roleplay - that is writing a book in a lonely corner all by yourself. If you want to RP a scripted, "epic" story, then do so by yourself - or don't make huge scrpited stories at all because involving people that don't know the story what so ever is bound to make your plans change drastically. Also, it was an IC response to your own RP.

You aren't telling the whole story either - Cathee was standing in Cali's face. Right in front of her, asking for the item. When Cali then dropped it on the ground it would of been right at Cathees feet. I simply emoted picking it up and then you emoted picking it up after me. That's why I wrote that she snatched it - because I was the one emoting first, and by common sense it should of been dropped right in front of Cathee.

Cathee told him several times to tell him what the scrap metal was. When he didn't respond she reacted to that. I don't think that OOCly makes -me- a godemoter. I reacted on everything IC as Cathee is rather sick and tired of Alastir. So I don't understand why you make a big deal out of this. If it's so important to you to RP a scripted story (while I personally don't understand how that's fun RP..) then just go find the item as if nothing happened? I don't really care too much, ICly Cathee thinks it'd be really hard to find but for all we know maybe it just popped up in the fountain behind them. Who knows? Who cares? Just RP it out, how hard can it be?

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Cathee Piner on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:37 am

Also - this issue has nothing to do with the DefiasRP -FORUM-. Hence I am moving it to Game related.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Amaryl on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:57 am

So just to get this straight - a piece of scrap metal was dropped. two people 'emoted to pick it up'

and the one that typed faster therefor defacto wins?

The OP kind-off got a point here. Not that it is actually god-emoting, but simply "losing" a conflict solely on the merits of being a slower typer isn't supposed to be what RP is about either.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Rmuffn on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:00 am

Unless I'm wrong it's near impossible to even "teleport" anything or one to an unknown location. The mage performing the teleport would have to know.

This leaves the conclussion that you could've kept it IC and just tried to find out where so you could go get it. Or to use your own example, you could've contacted the mage and asked where it might've ended up and how to proceed from there in regards to wanting to find it.

You have clearly decided NOT to take this IC and make RP out of it, nor handling it as an event in your character's development (even with my example being very good way to do so and still get what you want out of it.)
Instead you wanted to complain.

Also. You shouldn't have to "attempt" every single action you emote. Soon we'll hear someone has to attempt to drink from their own glass.
No but seriously. Even writing "stabs X in the belly" doesn't need an attempt. Because that is infact an action. They stab for the belly, it's up to you to determine if it's successful or not, the "attempt" seriously isn't needed UNLESS the stabber is the kind of person who would complain OOCly afterwards that it was indeed a force. But that tells us two things. It's rare people do that, and those who do are the true godemoters and not worth your time.


If they failed to emote "attempts" to snatch a key. You can still emote trying to prevent it, or grab their hand/wrist.
Did you? If you didn't. Why not?

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Cathee Piner on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:24 am

Amaryl wrote:So just to get this straight - a piece of scrap metal was dropped. two people 'emoted to pick it up'

and the one that typed faster therefor defacto wins?

The OP kind-off got a point here. Not that it is actually god-emoting, but simply "losing" a conflict solely on the merits of being a slower typer isn't supposed to be what RP is about either.

Was a small point. The bigger point was, that my character was standing right in front of the character that dropped the scrap metal. It was, right in front of her on the ground. Also that she had previous to the drop of it been trying to get hold of it while Alastir didn't want it even though it was offered to him. So Cathee was already prepared to get the thing when it was dropped. As said, the whole story isn't told. And it probably won't make much sense to people reading about it like to the people that were there.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Cathee Piner on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:27 am

Either way, it's a really stupid thing to make an argument about. If its so important to you, then go find it ICly. I honestly couldn't care less. I just reacted ICly to the situation that was. And it is oh so simple to react on what happened ICly without going on a forum to complain about it, really.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Muzjhath on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:34 am

From what I gather here the first person gave an item important to a plot to a character thst didn't want it and didn't seem to know about the plot.
Didn't accept it back.
Then when someone else picks it up after being thrown too the ground and done away with. Thus "ruining" the plot. Person original gets prissy in "hey check with me first! "

Wouldn't the thing here be informing about the plot and not just handing a random item out?
Pretty much all plots I've been in have been started with at least a few people aware of it happening, if not what.

Then the person given the item might have an idea of what yo do. Or just be a fitting character. Had my orc been given scrap metal she would just have thrown it away.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Cathee Piner on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:38 am

That. And a bit of IC recentment of course. Cathee doesn't like Alastir. And when he didn't tell her (ICly) what the item was for, was when she did away with the thing to piss him off. But that is all IC, and should really be kept there.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by erwtenpeller on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:43 am

Izaa wrote:You shouldn't have to "attempt" every single action you emote. Soon we'll hear someone has to attempt to drink from their own glass.
No but seriously. Even writing "stabs X in the belly" doesn't need an attempt. Because that is infact an action. They stab for the belly, it's up to you to determine if it's successful or not.
Best five lines in the thread!

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by siegmund on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:00 am

So should have atempted to snatch it from her or hit each other in the head! Who knows I wasn't there.

Still it's not good giving out items you need to people who probably are going to throw them away anyway!


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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Amaryl on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:20 am

erwtenpeller wrote:
Izaa wrote:You shouldn't have to "attempt" every single action you emote. Soon we'll hear someone has to attempt to drink from their own glass.
No but seriously. Even writing "stabs X in the belly" doesn't need an attempt. Because that is infact an action. They stab for the belly, it's up to you to determine if it's successful or not.
Best five lines in the thread!

No it isn't, there's a difference between writing: /e Stabs x IN the belly.  and /e Stabs AT x's belly.

The first one is a result the action has already past. The second emote is an action. You indeed don't have to write attempt every-time, but your example is not an action. Language matters.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by erwtenpeller on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:33 am

Whatever. It's still up to you how you respond to that. Be flexible. All of these "rules" don't really exist.

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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

Post by Amaryl on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:45 am

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These rules do exist.


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Re: Common sense or is it just too good to be true.

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