The theological concept of angels.

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The theological concept of angels.

Post by Izzifix on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:40 pm

Another thread!

Basicly, there are multiple mentions of things of an angelic nature in warcraft. Angelic Bulwark and Archangel for priests spring to mind. This, not very accurate, up-to-date or descriptive page from a generally not all that reliable source lists other encounters with such things in universe.

It raises the question, though: What is an angel in the game universe?
And more importantly: What importance would they hold in the various Light-based faiths?

From what I've seen, I think that the Light-mythos that some in here flesh out IC every day could get even more exciting dimensions and perhaps a little extra depth in the concept of angels. Or perhaps I just really like that the Force-like, hinduism/buddhism-inspired Light might have angelic servants in the style of the monotheistic religions. Or perhaps it is just the fact that I don't know this, and would rather hear inspired, IC speeches about it than a boring Ask the Devs-answer.

So, am I completely missing vital pieces of evidence here? What do we really have to go on, when it comes to this topic?

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:42 pm

I think they were declared non-canon along with every reference to god.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Izzifix on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:43 pm

That's more than a little odd, really. Keeping the skill names etc in that case, I mean (Archangel, I'm looking at you).

Edit:
Think you can conjure up more sources on it? It'd be interesting.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Allonia_Miral on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:53 pm

Isn't there angels in the stained glass windows in Ulduar? Or do I remember wrong....

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

http://wowpedia.org/Light#God_and_Angels

Here is where I read it.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Anivitas on Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Think the most obvious angel is the Spirit Healer.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by siegmund on Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:06 am

As said spirit healers seem to be the closest things. And as we all know even if faiths change some of the old ways follow into the new.

From one of the links this: "You are my guardian angel! Like a white knight you flew in from the heavens and lifted me from the pit of damnation!"

Of course can be just Blizz and their refrences, but who knows maybe these being are indeed a thing, probably spirit healers who aid when ressurections occur?

ONE thing to note would be the (Val'kyr), the Lich King made them and don't they look like spirit healers/Angels? Pretty much the Lich King gave them this gift. They ressurect you in the DK starting area if you die. So these are what? Lich King was pretty powerful over death yep so these are like i'd say imperfect angels... Or spirit healers or whatever you want to call them, angels of undeath *shrug*

So that'd be open to thinking.


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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Gesh on Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:49 am

I think I read somewhere that evoking The Holy Light to a great extent, in like a burst of heroism creates this kind of explosion of energy, which comes off as if the individual does have wings, could be a polite nod towards the various Disc/Holy Priest and Paladin spells..

To be " Angelic " could simply mean to be like super close to The Holy Light.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Thelos on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:09 am

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

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No angels here.

More to the point:

The question whether there are such things as angels in the WoW universe is moot: they're all over the god-damn place (pun intended). If it looks like an angel, acts like an angel and sounds like an angel, it's probably an angel.

Since all spells that use angelic graphics are of the Holy school for either priests and paladins and all items using angelic motifs seem to be designed for either priests or holy paladins, I think it's a pretty safe bet that they ought to be associated with the Holy Light. As for the nature of this connection...Who knows? Angels are supposed to be enigmatic. We're not supposed to understand them.

The angelic imagery is one of the strongest depictions of The Divine that we have; it's deeply ingrained into the western collective unconscious and nothing screams: THIS SHIT IS HOLY as loudly as a set of glowing wings attached to a blinding bright-yellow/white humanoid form. It is the single most powerful way to depict that HOLY POWER IS BEING CRANKED UP TO THE MAAAAAAX; and this is precisely how angelic motifs are often used in WoW. Hell, the only thing you can get more holy is if you start blasting Beethoven's 9th trough the speakers whenever the angels themselves appear:



FREUNDEN, your shit's about to get smitten.

Or possibly Händel, for the less action-packed sequences:

Spoiler:

Or Ave Maria, if you want to be sombre and solemn:

Spoiler:

I wouldn't take the appereances of angels any more serious than that. Whenever you see an angel pop up, shit's about to get smitten: it's a visual cue to show that something divine is happening, just as the songs I just listed are audio cues that something divine is happening. That's about all that can be said about angels in WoW: that's where their significance begins and ends. Best not overthink it too much.[/i]

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Lexgrad on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:49 am

What is in lore is that when Uther fought Arthas, his eyes glowed and he became like completely one with the light, will go and reread the section to see if there was wings.

What is fun about all light stuff, Blizz have said several times they know exactly how it works and what the secrets are, and we might find out more in WoD.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Thelos on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:57 am

Probably titans.

It's always either titans or old gods with Blizzard.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Melnerag on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:59 am

Turns out that the Light is powered by photohondrians that dwell in the cells of the living organisms.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Vaell on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:05 am

I think the angelic forms are just manifestations of the light. Just go with that, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier when you rp a lightie. If your faith is strong enough, the light could become an ethereal being to help you.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Lexgrad on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:21 am

Allonia_Miral wrote:Isn't there angels in the stained glass windows in Ulduar? Or do I remember wrong....

I think there was, there were defo sha's on them.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Lexgrad on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:21 am

Melnerag wrote:Turns out that the Light is powered by photohondrians that dwell in the cells of the living organisms.

Sylvanas shot first.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Allonia_Miral on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:36 am

Vaell wrote:I think the angelic forms are just manifestations of the light. Just go with that, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier when you rp a lightie. If your faith is strong enough, the light could become an ethereal being to help you.

Honestly that's how I've always seen it. Angels are beings of light, that's not so hard to translate into WoW lore.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Lexgrad on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:37 am

Opposite of shadow fiends.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by siegmund on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:55 am

Allonia_Miral wrote:
Vaell wrote:I think the angelic forms are just manifestations of the light. Just go with that, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier when you rp a lightie. If your faith is strong enough, the light could become an ethereal being to help you.

Honestly that's how I've always seen it. Angels are beings of light, that's not so hard to translate into WoW lore.

Would make the most sense with what we've got around.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Izzifix on Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:11 am

siegmund wrote:
Allonia_Miral wrote:
Vaell wrote:I think the angelic forms are just manifestations of the light. Just go with that, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier when you rp a lightie. If your faith is strong enough, the light could become an ethereal being to help you.

Honestly that's how I've always seen it. Angels are beings of light, that's not so hard to translate into WoW lore.

Would make the most sense with what we've got around.

This view is excellent, especially for RPing beliefs etc. Religion becomes more approachable by the less scholarly types when the Force sometimes can become physical and see justice done through its servants. Takes some of the abstract-ness of it all down to the earth, so to speak. It would also help justify respect for paladins and priests among the general populace, as someday, angels might gaze upon you through their eyes...

I'm liking how the Lore on the subject doesn't seem to be nailed down all that much too. More room for IC interpretations that aren't just the products of willful ignorance.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by erwtenpeller on Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:26 am

Melnerag wrote:Turns out that the Light is powered by photohondrians that dwell in the cells of the living organisms.
Post of the year.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Littlepip on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:58 am

So, after reading some of the recent posts I have a question, does it exist "Shadow angles" the opposite of normal angels?

The reason I ask this is because of the legendary shadow form, if we use that we could roleplay out said "Shadow angles" or "Fallen angels" as one might say.

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Thelos on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:07 am

Sure. Why not?

You've already got the wings for it:


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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Izzifix on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:59 am

Dark Archangel is a thing, isn't it?

Shadow users can be tricky to depict believably, but I can imagine darkness fillling the room as the dark priest is pushed across the final treshold, spreads his wings and calmy tells his tormentor: "You underestimate my power. DO NOT TAKE ME FOR SOME CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS!"

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by Charlie Blazesong on Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:19 am


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Re: The theological concept of angels.

Post by siegmund on Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:49 am

Can drop this off here I guess a interesting read least:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/06/19/know-your-lore-the-mysterious-connection-between-spirit-healers/

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Re: The theological concept of angels.

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