Resurrection

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Resurrection

Post by Vaell on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:45 am

I'm not currently playing the game but I still enjoy discussing the lore so... This is always a subject which people tend to avoid talking about because there are so many arguments for and against its consistent use.

Resurrection through all forms of magic and also the Spirit Healer.


I'm personally on the side that argues that it's an extremely powerful and straining spell to master. I don't believe that the Spirit Healers are IC and if they are, I'd argue that they're only present for the chosen hero that the questline pushes forth. It seems far too much like a game mechanic and if it were common, then surely there would be no death in WoW. Game mechanics make resurrection seem pitifully easy but, as I said before, that would mean practically no hero would ever truly die.

Should people be afraid of death in a world where resurrection is so frequent? Or should we understand the clear game mechanics behind that? That being said, I remember a group of people being resurrected all at once in a couple of quests (I can't remember what one, but I'm sure I've seen it) so how is it so simple for some?

My views:
- Resurrection is tough to master. It does not always work.
- It is an extremely straining spell and therefore the caster would feel withered/fatigued for a period of time after (days to weeks imo)
- It should be performed within minutes of death to have the greatest chance of working.


Resurrection is probably the sloppiest and most inconsistent/looked over piece of lore.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Sanara on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:09 am

Resurrections become harder the more dramatically effective the target's death was, obviously.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:20 am

My views:
- Resurrection is tough to master. It does not always work.
- It is an extremely straining spell and therefore the caster would feel withered/fatigued for a period of time after (days to weeks imo)
- It should be performed within minutes of death to have the greatest chance of working.
What lore do you have to suggest those views?

Sounds like Game of Thrones resurrection mostly

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Anivitas on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:24 am

I like the idea that resurrection takes away something from the character when used. A common used thing I know, but it means that resurrection is still there for those that wish to use it, but with an impact.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Drustai on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:29 am

The rules I personally go by:

- Few people know how to resurrect, as it is reserved for more powerful casters. It is kept rare by the lack of people who actually know/are willing to do it. Reagents should either be rare/expensive or diabolical, depending on the type of resurrection.
- Resurrection is not necessarily difficult for someone that knows how to do it, but must be done fairly soon after death. The longer after death, the more difficult it becomes. A resurrection that takes place months after death should be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Years after should basically require a miracle.
- Shadow magic can be used to resurrect (see soulstones and Raise Ally), but it should have even more stringent restrictions. I personally treat it as typically requiring same-day to raise the person back to life (before the soul leaves the body), and anything after that will guarantee undeath. Anything beyond a month will result in undeath AND mental degradation. In all cases, the target soul will be tainted by the spell, and the magic itself should take life to give life (soulstones require taking the soul of another, and necromantic resurrections require draining life from other people).
- The target must want to come back to be returned to life. A target that doesn't want to come back can only be forced into undeath, not resurrected.
- The target must not have died from natural causes.
- Each resurrection, no matter what method, damages the soul. The more resurrections performed on the same individual, the more spiritually damaged they become. Eventually, resurrection shouldn't be possible.
- Resurrections should damage the body as well. When someone is resurrected, it should tax their physical health, possibly even aging them before their time.

People should be afraid of death, because of the rarity of resurrections. It should also be damaging to the soul, as stated, greatly weakening the target (and possibly the caster). In DnD and the WoW RPG, people lost a level with each resurrection, and if low enough would permanently lose Constitution (physical health). Someone so weak that they have neither levels nor Constitution to spare can't be raised at all. That's the inspiration I went with for my personal rules.

I try to keep both lore and dramatic impact into account, with the latter more important in my opinion.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Vaell on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:37 am

Cerik Ironforge wrote:
My views:
- Resurrection is tough to master. It does not always work.
- It is an extremely straining spell and therefore the caster would feel withered/fatigued for a period of time after (days to weeks imo)
- It should be performed within minutes of death to have the greatest chance of working.
What lore do you have to suggest those views?

Sounds like Game of Thrones resurrection mostly
The difficulty point is backed up by the fact that there is not an endless army on both sides. Major lore characters have been killed in combat and not been brought back. Any spell can fail, so I'm sure one so difficult would be no exception.

A body must be resurrected within days to avoid rigor mortis setting in but I go by minutes because we know for a fact that souls ascend in WoW so I assume that once that happens, it would be incredibly difficult to retrieve it. Otherwise, wouldn't it be logical to bring back great war generals from the past into new bodies?

As for it being draining, I don't have a lore source to back it up - I think it is just better for characterisation and provides reasonable doubt when people are confronted with someone asking for them to resurrect their fallen companion/loved one.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by siegmund on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:55 am

I like the ideas that Dru has. As some say sometimes plot, but i like some logic within. I don't really see someone beheaded to be able to get resurected (Well to undeath yeah), but that's just my thoughts.

In the end ressurection probably needs the spirit and the body sorta in tact, if you're aiming for them being alive alive. And you got to heal the body too then just make then alive again else they will just die. So pretty sure you need to put some effort into it.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Dr. Haluthious Vouten on Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:04 am

Providing you are human, or elf for that matter! I say forget ressurection and hand yourselves over to the Professionals. The Val'kyr.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Grufftoof on Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:24 pm

Resurrection as a lore/story driven point is obviously harc otherwise we wouldn't have the problems we do in WOW: The Lich King, Banshee Queen, Scourge Armies, etc.

Every major and minor character in the story of the game can die the "true death". With little chance of "help" (one of the few "chances" is shown in the Ice Crown quests with the paladin (?) quest thingy (you know the one but I am drunk and can't be arsed chasing up). So I would say the "norm" is "death is death".

That resses exist really is a game mechanic for players, nothing else. It would make the game impossible (or iron man hard) for anyone else. Unless it's someone of massive import, assisted with massive power.

But the mechanic exists, so if people wanna play it, go ahead. Work it out, I'd be interested to see how and why etc.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Paia/Jenit on Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Grufftoof wrote:
That resses exist really is a game mechanic for players, nothing else.  It would make the game impossible (or iron man hard) for anyone else.  Unless it's someone of massive import, assisted with massive power.

But the mechanic exists, so if people wanna play it, go ahead.  Work it out, I'd be interested to see how and why etc.
I tend to justify the player spells as being basically emergency triage/intensive care/forcible resuscitation magic, which is why they take so long to cast and used to cost so much mana. They're the equivalents of defibrillators (Jumper Cables), reviving the close to death/clinically dead from the point of death.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by siegmund on Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:15 pm

Paia/Jenit wrote:
Grufftoof wrote:
That resses exist really is a game mechanic for players, nothing else.  It would make the game impossible (or iron man hard) for anyone else.  Unless it's someone of massive import, assisted with massive power.

But the mechanic exists, so if people wanna play it, go ahead.  Work it out, I'd be interested to see how and why etc.
I tend to justify the player spells as being basically emergency triage/intensive care/forcible resuscitation magic, which is why they take so long to cast and used to cost so much mana. They're the equivalents of defibrillators (Jumper Cables), reviving the close to death/clinically dead from the point of death.
Yeah, but unlike jumper cables probably a bit more reliable since it probably goes to heal the body as well, so less chance that the soul goes "What the heck man i can't be in here it's too gooey and bloody and brokeny" if you catch my point, but on the other hand the body itself would be strained and weak anyway so that's how I think it could be.

Though a question for what i wondered -Jumper Cables- , now i'm sure some know the ability holy shock. I thought technically icly if used in the right way you could maybe use it somewhat similarly like jumper cable, but instead of voltage using light, sorta. But i guess shamans could do that better (If they don't overdo it and fry the guy). What are your guys thoughts on that?

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Coppersocket on Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:53 pm

I think we should all look to Seiken for information on Resurrection, he's an expert.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by erwtenpeller on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:37 am

Sanara wrote:Resurrections become harder the more dramatically effective the target's death was, obviously.
Perfect post.

I don't handle any rules for it. I just do what delivers the best story. That can mean a casual resurrection because the player took some random twat that stabbed him to death IC but doesn't want their character to be gone forever, or it can mean a 4-month quest to gather the correct reagents.

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Re: Resurrection

Post by Ilotar on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:30 pm

I am not so fast at leveling and I wouldn't be able to handle to lvl new characters each time I died. So I have to go with the ress. But it should take some time, I'd agree on that.

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Re: Resurrection

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