Mists of Pandaria

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Raenmar on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:42 pm

The Z wrote:So that's (possibly) the new orc male model done-ish. Then we've got Vol'jin with his new model, which could also work as a player one. So that'll leave...nine races (if counting belves and draeneis) and both gendres for each, so...17 models(?) left! Ugh, I hope they'll at least manage to deliver all that for the next expansion's launch.

I think they've already finished dwarves too. They were the first ones they worked on.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Drustai on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:49 am

No Stromgarde scenario.

Sad face.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by erwtenpeller on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:50 am

Yaaay!

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Lexgrad on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:46 am

ikr Dru : /  Is your fist tired of pumping yet?

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Iriel Silversong on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:22 am

Doesnt mean there's not a possibility that they will in the future...!

Also bring back the park...

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Rmuffn on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:47 pm

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Anyone noticed the size of his tits when he's sha-corrupted?
Also just hating that he is. Ruining such a perfect character to something so pathetic a concept. Atleast demonic corruption had style and relevance!

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by erwtenpeller on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:10 pm

I find sha corruption to be infinitely more interesting then demonic corruption.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Drustai on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:11 pm

erwtenpeller wrote:I find sha corruption to be infinitely more interesting then demonic corruption.

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"...in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself... In all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions."

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:19 pm

That's because Sha corruption is actual corruption, wheras demonic 'corruption' is more often than not posession.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Muzjhath on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:34 pm

...
And I find Sha and Demonic corruption to be more or less same shit different name. (as in they're both outside corruption)

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Drustai on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:38 pm

Muzjhath wrote:...
And I find Sha and Demonic corruption to be more or less same shit different name. (as in they're both outside corruption)

Sha corruption is internal. It might be influenced by outside corruption, but all that outside corruption does is encourage the negative emotions that the person is already feeling. The people at risk of sha corruption are those who are already emotionally vulnerable. Garrosh is falling to the Sha of Pride because he was already a very proud and arrogant person, and it is fueling those emotions.

Demonic corruption, on the other hand, typically overpowers whatever personality the person has, and supplants it.

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"...in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself... In all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions."

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Zaraj on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:18 pm

I have to agree that the route they went down with Garrosh was stupid. Then again, they have to please the masses as well, which explains most of the storywriting in the later days of WoW.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:20 am

Zaraj wrote:I have to agree that the route they went down with Garrosh was stupid. Then again, they have to please the masses as well, which explains most of the storywriting in the later days of WoW.

I guess that makes me 'of the masses' then, because I am pleased with the current route and especially the storywriting in the later days of WoW.

Back to 5.4.

It seems we'll actually get two raids: the Siege of Ogrimmar we're all familiar with, and another raid in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. The latter raid will have Immerseus, the Fallen Protectors, Norsushen and the Sha of Pride as its final boss, and the Siege of Ogrimmar will have the other bosses, with Garrosh as the final one.

This pleases me greatly.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Muzjhath on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:22 am

This is the second character that could have been a great bad guy in his own right that blizzard ruins with "OMG OLD GOD WAS CORRUPTING HIM!" (Staghelm)

I think Zaraj would just rather have had Garrosh be megalomanic without that outside interference. And I agree with him on that.
Personally I seea revolt against a Garrosh that's just being a megalomanic fool, but himself, as a far more satisfying storyline. (Revolts against, and big things happening, because of one persons biggotry has happened before in Warcraft).

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Allonia_Miral on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:26 am

I agree the sha concept is nice in general, but I would have liked to just fight Garrosh looking like Garrosh as well.

Feels like back in the day in Final Fantasy games where you finally reach the end boss, who turned into some huge mutant who changes 5 times, and you think "meh I just wanted to fight Sephiroth..."

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:28 am

I suggest you actually wait and see what the fight and dialogue is like before you draw your conclusions.

It might suprise you.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Muzjhath on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:10 am

From what datamining I've read. Half the fight seem's to be Old God interference.

In one way i like it. I like that they're not making Garrosh into a super warrior that'd survive the beatdown of 25 heroes (+whatever NPC champions you'll have with you) by personal feat alone.
But I dislike how -all- bad stuff in WoW is demonic or old godic.

Edit: As an add, imo the greatest Badguy WoW has seen is Othmar Garithos.


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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:13 am

The fact that Garrosh just now near the end drank some Old God juice doesn't make him any less of a dick. What is this, reverse redemption, in which doing something even more evil after lots of evil suddenly makes the previous evil good? Garrosh does more and more dickish things, culuminating in becoming the Avatar of Dickishness. Do you have any hint at all whatsoever to suggest that Garrosh has been controlled by Sha all along? Hell he was a massive prick at the start of the expansion before he even knew what a Sha was.

God. You people draw conclusions way, way too fast.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Iriel Silversong on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:27 am

He was a prick In cata already...

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:35 am

Irene Silversong wrote:He was a prick In cata already...

Exactly.

Him taking the heart of an Old God is the crowning achievement of his villainy, not the beginning of his villainhood like it is for many other characters you guys are now falsely comparing him to.

Somebody in Wild Tempest chat said that Garrosh right now is emulating Lei Shen - and I'm inclined to agree with this comparison. Just like Lei Shen, Garrosh took the heart of a deity to power himself up as the height of his villainhood.

Yeah maybe he'll go 'nanners from the surge of evil mojo, but at least he will have journeyed to the deep end completely out of his own free will.

What else where you people expecting? Garrosh needed a power boost from something. Or do you seriously think he could have been the Final Boss of an expansion with just being a normal warrior-guy? Just fighting a guy with an axe isn't a very climactic end to an expansion filled with evil shadowbeasts. They need to make the fight considerably more exciting for it to be climactic. I mean how dull would fighting just a warrior have been? We've done that a dozen times already.

The problem people have with the corruption trope is that it's a cheap way for good characters to go villain - it's "instant evil just add Fel/Shadow/Sha". But any one with half a brain that has been paying attention to this game's storyline will be able to tell that this is NOT the case with Garrosh. He's been building up his evil for two expansions! For God's sake, we've seen him commit countless dickish acts without any taints whatsoever and now all of a sudden he's a victim of the "instant evil just add Fel/Shadow/Sha" trope? I mean if this happened suddenly to Thrall I could understand the complaints, but Garrosh? Dickish Garrosh who has been an ass this entire time? It's the end of his evil, not the beginning.

Bah, I need to stop ranting about this topic, as I don't think I can make my point any clearer than this and I am just going to sound more and more agitated as this drags on.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Xen-tau on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:50 am

I agree with you partially. Garrosh was a true orc, not evil. Orcs are warriors, and have a sense of honour. The Cata expansion showed that. Not nuking places was a good start for example in Stonetalon Mountains. He had a sense of honour. Yes, he was a brute and stupid and whatsoever. But that's typical of orcs. Great at battle, terrible at the rest. Garrosh is, in that sense, the stereotypical orc. Before the mana-bomb, Garrosh could've been a proper warchief. Perhaps being said dick, but a proper warchief nontheless.

But then came the mana-bomb, a move that was illogical with how he was in Cata. He taunted at that battle, became arrogant, used demonic magics. All of that is a sign that he lost himself there (already). At this point the corruption became clear. And yes, I still think Jaina has fallen to the Sha. She seems corrupted to me as well.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Thelos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:53 am

Aishling wrote:
But then came the mana-bomb, a move that was illogical with how he was in Cata. He taunted at that battle, became arrogant, used demonic magics. All of that is a sign that he lost himself there (already).

That's literally impossible, since that decision was made even before the mists dispersed and the Sha and Y'shaarj were still contained to Pandaria.

He might have 'lost himself', yes, but if he did, he did so without Sha influence.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Arabella Greene on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:03 am

Can't people just admit he was a crazy bastard prior to all the cute lil' sha?

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Xen-tau on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:30 am

Thelos wrote:That's literally impossible, since that decision was made even before the mists dispersed and the Sha and Y'shaarj were still contained to Pandaria.

He might have 'lost himself', yes, but if he did, he did so without Sha influence.

I was under the impression the mists "broke" due to Deathwing. Could be mistaken though, but the Sha could've been in Azeroth since then. o.o

Somehow before the Shattering dissipated the magic that kept Pandaria hidden since the Great Sundering, some pandaren emerged from the bamboo forests of their ancestors to bring their unique fighting style (and robust ales) to the rest of Azeroth.

As referenced here (Wowpedia)


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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Post by Vaell on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:31 am

He was more brutish than crazy. Garrosh had the potential to be a better character than Blizzard have made him out to be. You look at his actions through Cata and, as previously said, he was a true Orc full of strength and honour. He believed in Orc superiority which isn't evil - he's just full of pride for his own race. Now, races in WoW are a little different to Black and White people IRL; it's not a simple thing just to call him a bigot/racist.  The races in WoW are practically Alien (literally in Draenai's case) so racism can definitely be expected - especially in the Horde where races are only banded together through a common goal of defeating enemies. Garrosh was somewhat a bastard, but he was a strict and powerful leader.

The way I saw his downfall was that he wasn't getting what he wanted. His honour was being questioned and people like Sylvanas were causing him to become paranoid. He dropped a lot of his honour ideals and decided to do drastic things such as bombing Theramore. He started to be consumed by the idea of decimating his enemies so that he may rebuild his race. He's a tragic hero of the Orcs, who doesn't understand the damage he causes.

With all that being said, I think it makes perfect sense that he becomes the big bad of MoP. He has built up pretty well. The problem I have is that it's far too simple to make him use this heart. It seems almost distant to his original character and doesn't really feel like a believable change. I totally agree that he needed to build some power to make him into a more interesting villain but what I would have liked instead is to see him trapped by the Rebellion - picture Hitler trapped! But out of refusal to die, he does something to gain power.

I'd like to see him take a desperate last stand, e.g.

"No, it can't be possible! General, where are the rest of my Vanguard?"
"All dead, Warchief."

"Warchief, we need to get you to-"
"Summon *character*. Inform him, it is time."

Etc, etc. Maybe he has been working on something that he has consistently questioned - like the Mad King in Game of Thrones with his wild-fire. The Old God influence will be more of a "I've been expecting you. Time to feel my wrath." and then suddenly he gets tainted. Granted, we don't know how Blizz will do it but my bets are on the latter when I'd have liked to see Garrosh completely defeaten and weary as he decides to use his final weapon.

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

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