Diary of Coppersocket

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Samian/Bismack on Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:35 am

Coppersocket wrote: But question yourself, WHY did these two events pop up?

Because having meetings aint a weird thing? The meetings aint about the dark portal suddenly being red they're about bringing people together. You're not being down to earth and sane Coppersocket, you are doing the opposite, big bla from ontop of a horse.

The timing's a bit too good

A coincidence (often stated as a mere coincidence) is a collection of two or more events or conditions, closely related by time, space, form, or other associations which appear unlikely to bear a relationship as either cause to effect or effects of a shared cause, within the observer's or observers' understanding of what cause can produce what effects.

This is why it's horrible RP.

Only if you relate OOC information to the actual RP, which doesnt apply since its metagaming.

A last edit:
That more than anything, pisses me the fuck off.
This is your problem, when you lack social skills you dont consider the bigger picture, its about sympathy which is something you obviously lack at this point of time but is of key importance if we play a game that is centered around interaction with eachother.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Vardrek/Burgen on Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:26 am

Samian/Bismack wrote:
A last edit:
That more than anything, pisses me the fuck off.
This is your problem, when you lack social skills you dont consider the bigger picture, its about sympathy which is something you obviously lack at this point of time but is of key importance if we play a game that is centered around interaction with eachother.

Bit much isn't it? To basically just go "you lack social skills this is why you don't understand." and then backhanding them with "You lack sympathy", just because he doesn't see eye to eye with you or Helmut? Surely that defeats the point you are making to a certain degree when you blurt that out, you coulda just left it as an explanation to the entire thing rather than do what you did.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Coppersocket on Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:32 am

Samian/Bismack wrote:
Coppersocket wrote: But question yourself, WHY did these two events pop up?

Because having meetings aint a weird thing? The meetings aint about the dark portal suddenly being red they're about bringing people together. You're not being down to earth and sane Coppersocket, you are doing the opposite, big bla from ontop of a horse.

The timing's a bit too good

A coincidence (often stated as a mere coincidence) is a collection of two or more events or conditions, closely related by time, space, form, or other associations which appear unlikely to bear a relationship as either cause to effect or effects of a shared cause, within the observer's or observers' understanding of what cause can produce what effects.

This is why it's horrible RP.

Only if you relate OOC information to the actual RP, which doesnt apply since its metagaming.

A last edit:
That more than anything, pisses me the fuck off.
This is your problem, when you lack social skills you dont consider the bigger picture, its about sympathy which is something you obviously lack at this point of time but is of key importance if we play a game that is centered around interaction with eachother.
There's no such thing as coincidence when you plan something ahead of time to correspond with something you're aware is going to happen.

I'm aware I'm being extreme. That's on purpose. This is how I do things. I can't focus on things very long, so when I do I go at it 100%.
This is one of my many faults as a person. I could learn to mediate my reasoning in a more reasonable manner. But generally I get so up in arms in a the specific thing I argue that I lose the sense of tact and simply try push what I believe is right.

Also, I must say the last part is very interesting. Sympathy. I think Empathy would be more accurate. I don't have empathy towards actions I oppose, and yes it could very well have something to do with my lack of social skill. (Or alternatively, you know. How I believe that things should be treated to get people to react.)

If you wish to talk about my mentality and how I approach things, we can do that. But that doesn't mean I won't stop calling these two events absolute tosh, and continue state that shoving this shit down peoples throat is terrible practice.

But feel free to prove me wrong (as you've yet to). I'm not beyond being corrected.

Edit:
That said, I probably won't respond for a while as I've completely run out of gas for now.


Last edited by Coppersocket on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Garrett on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:11 am

Spoiler:

Coppersocket wrote:The idea of call to arms is not a bad initiative, don't misunderstand. I'm not jumping on you personally helmut, nor am I OOCly questioning your decisions IC on who leads what. That's not what this is about and will never be. The reason I'm bringing this up, is because both you, and the Dawnchasers chose the impeccable time to prepare everyone of a disaster "just before" things happen. The timing's a bit too good, and it takes away from the whole surprise thing and makes it "called it", as Charlie stated. It becomes stupid, you make the whole thing a fucking charade to appeal to your own senses. I don't care how many you balled it with, this shit is still fucking metagaming, because you- and they, know that this is going to happen OOCly so you act towards making an event ICly to respond to something that hasn't even happened yet.

This is why it's horrible RP. Had it been about anything else, it'd been fine. Really. But this? No.
The fact that you actually had people support this idea just shows how dumb people are. They clearly didn't fucking think before they accepted it. They didn't consider what it could actually entailed.

Pull the plug on this fiasco until shit actually happens.

Couldn't agree more, the major reason everyone started "investigating" the matter is because they knew it was going to happen OOC'ly, so yeah, bad, very bad.

Take it IC after you -can- know about it IC'ly, otherwise it's just metagaming at its best, as said previously by multiple people.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Rainborn on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:34 am

Afaik, whenever a novel is released, especially one that is supposed to bridge the gap between two expansions, it's considered canon as soon as it is released.

That being said, we know from the novel War Crimes that Garrosh had escaped with the aid of the dragons and obviously this would be a concern. You could say we should have done all of this in May then, since that's when the novel was released but given the fairly nomadic nature of some Horde groups (Dawnchasers were in Pandaria, Falling Leaves were nomadic, OrB are nomadic) it's not out of the realm of imagination that it would take a while for us to get together at a Horde Gathering to plan what we were going to do.

On top of that, it's not like we went straight to the Blasted Lands and said
"Right let's prepare to invade Draenor and capture Garrosh!"
We went to Tanaris, then to the Twilight Highlands searching for where he could have escaped to and to look for clues to his whereabouts.

Basically, I wouldn't call it metagaming when we used knowledge that is canon, from War Crimes, to plan events.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Samian/Bismack on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:13 am

Vardrek/Burgen wrote:
Samian/Bismack wrote:
A last edit:
That more than anything, pisses me the fuck off.
This is your problem, when you lack social skills you dont consider the bigger picture, its about sympathy which is something you obviously lack at this point of time but is of key importance if we play a game that is centered around interaction with eachother.

Bit much isn't it? To basically just go "you lack social skills this is why you don't understand." and then backhanding them with "You lack sympathy", just because he doesn't see eye to eye with you or Helmut? Surely that defeats the point you are making to a certain degree when you blurt that out, you coulda just left it as an explanation to the entire thing rather than do what you did.

You are right, I did not mean it as a personal attack on Coppersocket but more towards roleplayers in general being stuck in their shell

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Samian/Bismack on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:17 am

That said you're still missing the point, theres no active iron horde chatter or how Garrosh went back in time, if those things were discussed then yes, its poor RP.

But thats not the case, atleast not with Helmuts event so there's no actual argument.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:23 am

When I was presented ICly with the event I was told "it's a call to arms to hunt Hellscream and prepare to stand against his revenge!" Which I found weird because how did anybody know that he was going to take revenge? If this is not representative of the event itself though then fair enough.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Samian/Bismack on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:25 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:When I was presented ICly with the event I was told "it's a call to arms to hunt Hellscream and prepare to stand against his revenge!" Which I found weird because how did anybody know that he was going to take revenge? If this is not representative of the event itself though then fair enough.

I assume thats just a weird individual.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:26 am

It was an organizer. I'll refrain from name calling any further than this.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Samian/Bismack on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:28 am

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:It was an organizer. I'll refrain from name calling any further than this.

I'm at a loss of words then tbh, that is incredibly metagamey.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Helmut on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:36 am

As I said, the Call of Afms thing was thought up before we knew of Hellscreams timetravel and I would have introduced it a lot earlier if I have had a chance. Now, when it comes to people mentioning "the Hellscream situation" I either point to what we know based on War Crimes and a bit of what the majority of the Horde playing out (not knowing where he is, but rather look for traces). But if you have beenaround those times which they are being spoken about then you would have seen that Helmut keeps it very short when it comes to "what we know". All he says is "We know that the Dragonmaw clan and evil time dragons freed him and has not been spotted since", but that we should be on the lookout because we are in Azaroth, a world where a new threat pop up just after one is defeated.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Baji on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:14 am

I saw my guild's name mentioned in this so I thought I'd dive in and add my two cents to this "metagaming" thing.

Garrett wrote:Couldn't agree more, the major reason everyone started "investigating" the matter is because they knew it was going to happen OOC'ly, so yeah, bad, very bad.

Take it IC after you -can- know about it IC'ly, otherwise it's just metagaming at its best, as said previously by multiple people.

Don't assume anything! Wink

For a start, we've been planning to look for Garrosh for months but due to multiple guild's timetables we couldn't do it until September. Plus, we wanted enough "OOC time" to pass that people could read the book or find out what happened on their own since the events in the book occur over a week or so - but a book can take longer to read - and we didn't want to dive in too early and then have months of "waiting around," or risk shoving spoilers down people's throats. The Iron Horde coming is also a major event and if people wanted to RP being on Draenor, we wanted no other storylines to get in the way.

I pride myself in running a reasonably "low fantasy" guild and not doing things too over the top. This has admittedly been a stretch but personally I wanted to do something and address Garrosh's escape.

Why? Because nobody did. Not to my knowledge. It was mentioned briefly and then that was that.

Garrosh stuff:
He was rescued by Dragonmaw loyalists riding Infinite Dragons who trashed the Temple of the White Tiger, killed dozens and injured Jaina Proudmoore. Then Garrosh vanished. And nobody knows where. The Black Prince turned out to be a traitor as well.

Oh well then, that happened, let's not talk about it ever In-Character or address it at all.

In my planning, I have stayed true to the book and the canon knowledge all the way. Nobody knows where he is. We haven't even mentioned that he possibly went back in time. it would cause an obvious concern, in my opinion, that the Infinite Dragonflight suddenly appeared and got involved in all this since they want to bring about "End Time." That's why we went to the Caverns.

We have investigated the "obvious" places and found nothing. The only thing anyone ever said that could be referring to the Iron Horde was an alternate timeline version of a few characters that dropped vague hints of orcs killing everyone and a "brown Horde", but that could mean anything or be completely irrelevant.

People are excited! Let them roleplay a bit.

My original plan was: "it's a wild goose chase and we discover nothing. We're just acting on the fact that he has escaped and we should do something about it and actually address, enjoy and be part of the lore." And that's what we've done.

I wanted to have fun with Orcs of the Red Blade, Ashal Anore, Flying Bolts (and others), come together and enjoy some good roleplaying and get to know each other. And we have. That's all that matters. If anyone ever had a personal complaint, they were free during the months of planning to come to me, or any of us, and say so, especially when Rargnasha posted something about it and asked if people wanted to co-ordinate something.

We have no idea the Iron Horde is coming. We have no idea where Garrosh is or if he is coming back. But we wanted to do something, as said, to enjoy the lore and address the story (in the book), before the portal opens and Draenor is released because it's going to be chaos and people are not going to want to roleplay all that much. Or won't be able to due to gankers in Blasted Lands.

If you have any questions about what we're up to or what's been going on, feel free to ask! Smile

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Raene on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:36 am

One thing I will say in defence of Helmuts stuff, is that nothing actually happened. Nobody's doing anything.

It's just "Yo, I know we're at peace guys, but uhh. We're still a Military. Let's just make sure we're all kinda acting like it, see who's up and about, and these are the guy's we should really look to for leadership and support."

That was pretty much the be all, and end all of everything. You could argue that we had reason to head to the Swamp of Sorrows because apparently that's where Horde RPers were gathering which would be a concern for the Alliance, but even then, IIRC only a small group are heading to see wtf the Horde are doing.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Garrett on Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:05 am

Spoiler:

Baji wrote:I saw my guild's name mentioned in this so I thought I'd dive in and add my two cents to this "metagaming" thing.

Garrett wrote:Couldn't agree more, the major reason everyone started "investigating" the matter is because they knew it was going to happen OOC'ly, so yeah, bad, very bad.

Take it IC after you -can- know about it IC'ly, otherwise it's just metagaming at its best, as said previously by multiple people.

Don't assume anything! Wink

For a start, we've been planning to look for Garrosh for months but due to multiple guild's timetables we couldn't do it until September. Plus, we wanted enough "OOC time" to pass that people could read the book or find out what happened on their own since the events in the book occur over a week or so - but a book can take longer to read - and we didn't want to dive in too early and then have months of "waiting around," or risk shoving spoilers down people's throats. The Iron Horde coming is also a major event and if people wanted to RP being on Draenor, we wanted no other storylines to get in the way.

I pride myself in running a reasonably "low fantasy" guild and not doing things too over the top. This has admittedly been a stretch but personally I wanted to do something and address Garrosh's escape.

Why? Because nobody did. Not to my knowledge. It was mentioned briefly and then that was that.

Garrosh stuff:
He was rescued by Dragonmaw loyalists riding Infinite Dragons who trashed the Temple of the White Tiger, killed dozens and injured Jaina Proudmoore. Then Garrosh vanished. And nobody knows where. The Black Prince turned out to be a traitor as well.

Oh well then, that happened, let's not talk about it ever In-Character or address it at all.

In my planning, I have stayed true to the book and the canon knowledge all the way. Nobody knows where he is. We haven't even mentioned that he possibly went back in time. it would cause an obvious concern, in my opinion, that the Infinite Dragonflight suddenly appeared and got involved in all this since they want to bring about "End Time." That's why we went to the Caverns.

We have investigated the "obvious" places and found nothing. The only thing anyone ever said that could be referring to the Iron Horde was an alternate timeline version of a few characters that dropped vague hints of orcs killing everyone and a "brown Horde", but that could mean anything or be completely irrelevant.

People are excited! Let them roleplay a bit.

My original plan was: "it's a wild goose chase and we discover nothing. We're just acting on the fact that he has escaped and we should do something about it and actually address, enjoy and be part of the lore." And that's what we've done.

I wanted to have fun with Orcs of the Red Blade, Ashal Anore, Flying Bolts (and others), come together and enjoy some good roleplaying and get to know each other. And we have. That's all that matters. If anyone ever had a personal complaint, they were free during the months of planning to come to me, or any of us, and say so, especially when Rargnasha posted something about it and asked if people wanted to co-ordinate something.

We have no idea the Iron Horde is coming. We have no idea where Garrosh is or if he is coming back. But we wanted to do something, as said, to enjoy the lore and address the story (in the book), before the portal opens and Draenor is released because it's going to be chaos and people are not going to want to roleplay all that much. Or won't be able to due to gankers in Blasted Lands.

If you have any questions about what we're up to or what's been going on, feel free to ask! Smile

Fair enough, you have my apologies, perhaps I should have informed myself more about that book. Rolling Eyes

Although I wasn't really targeting this at the Horde side of RP, mainly because I've never set a foot there and have no clue how things are and go on that side. I was mostly referring to what I've seen going on in the Alliance, specifically what Ixirar pointed out as well earlier.

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:When I was presented ICly with the event I was told "it's a call to arms to hunt Hellscream and prepare to stand against his revenge!"

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Baji on Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:19 am

Fair dos! Smile

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Lexgrad on Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:34 pm

erwtenpeller wrote:If I would start shouting at people for everything I think is "bullshit" I would have no friends.

Welcome to my world Crying or Very sad

As a general point for once I agree with Copper. I saw the horde civil war die for ooc metagaming (among other problems) and what should have been RP gold was poop. Nothing wrong in "losing" in RP. Let yourself be blindsided by this; you didnt see it coming that Garrosh would go back in time, make a new horde with black jack and hookers, and come gank shit up in Blasted lands and that is 100% cool.

The real RP story from this imo should be SW thinking about the first war and losing its shit.

Oh and regarding the warcrimes argument... There is nothing in the book that could have reasonably predicted this event.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by hydramez on Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:41 pm

Am I the only one not getting what the big deal is?
*Garrosh escapes* "Well, we better get our shit together, we know him, he'll want to try and kill us or something"

*Shit goes down in the blasted lands, -someone- probably got the word back to stormwind/orgrimmar that day* "Well, shit's going down, let's go do something. Lucky we were sorting our shit huh?"


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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Coppersocket on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:29 am

Well, now we have the trouble of people treating the offensive as a fucking field trip and strolls over to the Dark Portal without thinking they'd be wiped the fuck out, and completely ignoring people are being blown up and dying constantly around them.

Alliance seems to have absolutely no interest in realizing how big threat the Iron Horde is supposed to be.
(Also, there's 2-3 Military guilds there. Yet they get rounded up by a bairmaid. It's fucking laughable.)

G fucking G.

Samian/Bismack wrote:You are right, I did not mean it as a personal attack on Coppersocket but more towards roleplayers in general being stuck in their shell
I may as well point this out too, I didn't take offense.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Grim on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:32 am

Y'know what? I didn't like the Horde campaign to track down Hellscream. It felt too set up, too coincidental and too contrived.

But... Because I didn't agree with it I simply argued against it IC and then didn't take part in it.
Organising and running RP is hard work so its better to leave people to get on with it rather than rage against them in public. It only takes one person being an angry tit to put someone off entirely.

Also, more importantly - BWC were in Swamp of Sorrows but have since moved. You should have let me know you dirty bluebacks were heading that way, we'd have stayed and held a party for you!

((by party I mean hit you with axes until you stop twitching))

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Skarain on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:45 am

there's 2-3 Military guilds there.
Just to clarify one bit, Wild Tempest is not officially there yet. Only scouts, as that is what our manpower can currently muster while still rebuilding the guild.

As for otherwise, i do agree with you that it should be treated as a dangerous situation, but big things are hard to organize, especially with a limited number of Organizers. Yuando was the one running the show on Wednesday. I do not know if other people are organizing the show. So while i agree with you, that the scenario should look dangerous, one can always offer a helping hand to -create- that dangerous invasion for the participants to fight against.

Also Grim, once we get Wild Tempest back on it feet, you up for an after party?

((by after party I mean stabbing you with our sword for desecrating our dead with your axes))

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:46 am

Grim wrote:((by party I mean hit you with axes until you stop twitching))

(The Most Noble of Orcish pass-times.)

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Grim on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:55 am

Skarain, we are always up for a 'party' with Wild Tempest!

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by erwtenpeller on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:57 am

Coppersocket wrote:Also, there's 2-3 Military guilds there. Yet they get rounded up by a bairmaid.
Fuck off.

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

Post by Coppersocket on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:59 am

That's gonna have to be somewhere that isn't Blasted Lands then. Phase ahoy.
Fuck you Blizzard.

Also, Skarain. We did yesterday to have fun at Inneh and Monrena's account.
We used TRP to make NPCs scream in pain and get bombed just after they put a cliché movie line, and other fun stuff.
erwtenpeller wrote:Fuck off.
Someone's buttmodd

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Re: Diary of Coppersocket

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