[A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Odgan / Keag on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:25 am

This is the kind of guild I have been looking forward to for a long while, tbh.
When you for example enter Valiance Keep in Borean Tundra you see that the forces there are combined of every Alliance race, in RP well.. I always missed that, sure there been a lot of guilds where racial guilds worked together, but that remains different, sadly.
+ the adventure / dungeon mastered events = awesome!

I be very interested in joining this if / when it takes off.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:44 am

Awesome, with the ammount of interest I got here&in-game I am going forward with this. Tbh, if only Ildranor was interessted I would still do that because he IS awesome. So expect more details soon, and Guild Launch around monday-wednesday coming week.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:00 am

Melnerag wrote:Awesome, with the ammount of interest I got here&in-game I am going forward with this. Tbh, if only Ildranor was interessted I would still do that because he IS awesome. So expect more details soon, and Guild Launch around monday-wednesday coming week.

Feel free to pinch all the tenth legion insignia stuff on the heraldry thread if you want it.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Thelos on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:17 am

I will likely join this guild with one of my remaining draenei to skew the racial balance!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Manathon on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:25 am

I got a gnome if you want one. Or rather, I want in on my gnome if you've got room for one!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:31 am

Everything is work-in-progress

A word on leadership.

I don't like important ranks, and feel uncomfortable with everything above Lieutenant. However, there are some things a lieutenant just can't do. The guild will have a direct commanding officer who is an alt of somebody very awesome, said alt will be used occasionally for events and briefings, as a plot-device and to handle Court Martials and commendations.

The guild will start as a -squad- (that means around 5 members), using military rank-names without any claim to the dignity of the rank (as they are paramilitary, not part of the army at start). Before 5.1, you can see the structure like this:

Private - rank&file
Corporal - 2nd in command
Sergeant - leader

After 5.1, if the guild grows to 2-3 (or more) squads there will likely be an update to raise leader to Lieutenant and have sergeances as officers, leaders of independent squads within the guild.

Division into squads is interessting for just RP such as training, musters etc, but also for DMed events. For instance while I handle the general story of a Dungeon Mastered event, individual squad-leaders can handle their squad's combat against mob(s) which allows me to participate in the events and means faster replies, better flow and less frustrating waiting or DM missing your emotes.

Ranks are jobs, they are not given as rewards for good service (so you won't end up with 9 generals and a private). Rewards for good service are commendations, not ranks.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:32 am

Manathon wrote:I got a gnome if you want one. Or rather, I want in on my gnome if you've got room for one!

The Xildon is always welcome. No squad is complete without The Xildon.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:36 pm

To give some more spoilers. Remember, still work in progress!

Objectives : till 5.1:













PS: Work is being done, guild should be up by monday (as actual guild) and by wednesday (as an IC guild you can join and RP with)

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:49 pm

Melnerag wrote:To give some more spoilers. Remember, still work in progress!

Objectives : till 5.1:













PS: Work is being done, guild should be up by monday (as actual guild) and by wednesday (as an IC guild you can join and RP with)

Good luck Meln! best wishes with this, hopefully it will give the alliance a nice solid core of military rp'ers to rally behind!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Allandra on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:31 am

This sounds interesting.

I really wanted to see something like that coming.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Gogol on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:48 am

Let's hope it does better than the previous somewhat-military themed guild of yours did.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:06 am

Gogol wrote:Let's hope it does better than the previous somewhat-military themed guild of yours did.

I've learned a valuable lesson. Don't start a guild when you hate the game and secretly want to quit. Also, don't give the guild to [CENSORED] when quitting.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:33 am

Everything is work in progress

Discipline and Punishment

Discipline and organization is what makes the military. The Romans knew that, and one of the greatest empires in the world can't be wrong. On one hand, Discipline means a habit of obeying orders and behaving in a proper way, on the other hand it means consequences for failing to behave.

Chain of Command

The thing many get wrong about the chain of command, is that it is indeed an unbroken chain. You know at any given moment who is in charge and who gives your orders. Every argument can be resolved by one party pointing at the stripes on the uniform or line in the rulebook and saying ”I win!”

The guild's ranks may eventually look something like that: captain (leader), lieutenant (2nd in command), sergeant (squad leader), corporal (assistant squad leader), private (rank and file).

Here are the examples how certain situations are resolved:

1. Captain&Lieutenant are absent, the senior-most sergeant (one who is sergeant the longest) is in charge.
2. Sergeant&Corporal of a squad are absent, command falls to the Lieutenant. If he too is absent, it goes to captain, if captain too is absent it goes to senior-most sergeant. If no sergeants are present, it goes to senior-most corporal.

That means, that at all times, it is clear who gives you your orders and who is in charge of the whole guild. Of course it is about decisions that must be taken right now, not about choices that can wait on the desk for the Leader to see to them.

Not the modern military

The guild is by no means part of the modern military, we are talking about a setting that is inspired on the time in earth's history where alcohol was given to the troops as a reward or morale boost and where (in some countries) officers could kill one another in a duel and get away with it.

It doesn't mean that the guild is lax either, but it means that you get punished for being drunk and disorderly on duty...not for drinking on duty. And you only get punished for striking an officer if the officer minds. You can expect failure to show proper respect on official occasions, miserably failing muster or behaving incompetently to be punishable.

Punishments

Remember me mentioning Discipline being also about the consequences? Military likes things crystal clear, so consequences too are crystal-clear. Lets distinguish between minor offences (failing muster, being found drunk, failing to show respect), intermediate offences (disobeying order, getting in a big fight, showing incompetence) and serious offences (killing an ally, incompetence tantamount to treason, actual treason)

Minor and intermediate offences will be taken care of by a three-strike system.

It begins with an admonition which involves your direct superior frowning deeply, giving you a stern talk and making a note on your private record. If offences continue, it leads to a reprimand , which means more stern talking to and an official warning that punishment is imminent. Last is punishment which is given by direct superior and can involve suspension from duty, extra chores, withholding of pay (and alcohol). Repeated offence leads to a Court Martial , which includes coming face to face with out commodore...who is not a very nice lady. Some intermediate offences may lead directly to reprimand or punishment, serious offences always result in immediate court martial.

Conclusion

Immersion and atmosphere are very important, so the guild will try to capture the feel of the military theme. Hopefully that will also add to the clarity in rules and punishments and in the chain of command.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Gogol on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:37 am

Melnerag wrote:
Gogol wrote:Let's hope it does better than the previous somewhat-military themed guild of yours did.

I've learned a valuable lesson. Don't start a guild when you hate the game and secretly want to quit. Also, don't give the guild to [CENSORED] when quitting.
Sounds like a lesson well learned then old friend.
I might even join you on this one later on my self, best of luck to you.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by erwtenpeller on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:51 am

Good initiative. One of the reasons the Shatterskull Marauders are as fun and successful as they are is the constant injection of random roleplay that culture-clashes between different races provides.

And if you manage to get this off the ground, and you are looking for hordies to bonk heads with...

We'll be waiting to gut your pink bellies.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:48 am

Although it looks very much close to being complete, it is still work in progress

Task Force Wild Tempest

Expansion of the Alliance is one of tasks admiral Taylor takes to with great zeal, following the great success in Kun-Lai and with the Alliance Fleet still nowhere in sight the admiral has formed a paramilitary task force code-named “Wild Tempest” consisting of native Pandaren recruits, few Alliance soldiers whose units were almost fully wiped out and adventurers from among the Alliance races.

Wild Tempest has been placed under direct command of Commodore Conover, 2nd division, 3rd Squadron of the 7th Fleet who has received orders to use the new task force to increase the Alliance influence on Pandaria, protect the Alliance interests on the new continent and prepare for the arrival of the full might of the Seventh Fleet.

Time will tell if Wild Tempest will be counted among Admiral Taylor's successes like his work in Kun-lai, or as one of his failures like the disaster in Jade Forest.



Brief Guild Concept:

Wild Tempest (full name: Task Force Wild Tempest) is an Alliance military guild open to all races and classes. The guild is devoted to immersive Role-play with a good story and strong military theme. The guild will begin as a paramilitary unit formed in Kun-Lai Summit by Admiral Taylor and work its way into being recognized as a part of the Grand Alliance Military and becoming a special Task Force, deployed all over Azeroth to fight in the name of the Alliance.

Military theme does not mean that all RP will revolve around PvP, although PvP is certainly a part of it. "Military" in this case means that most RP will be devoted, in one way or another, to fighting on the side of the Alliance against the Horde and other enemies. It also means the guild is run like part of the military, with discipline, hierarchy and feel it entails.

Wild Tempest is not intended to become larger than a platoon, will never lay claim to being the Alliance Army and will steer clear of guarding and criminal&cultist Role-play unless the situation is just right and participation makes perfect sense.

Guild Activities:

There will be camp-RP involving training and camplife in-between larger events, sometimes it will be replaced with leave in a major city or RP hub. There will also be time and place for preparation: meeting other guilds, organizing the next operation, recruiting aid and finding rare supplies.

Dungeon Mastered events will be used for fighting non-played villains and as filler on operations and camp-site RP. It is a lot more fun to patrol around camp if suddenly there is a surprise attack, even if that attack is dungeon-mastered.

w-PvP will mostly consist of smaller-scale skirmishes instead of massive zerg to give battles a more personal and tactical feeling. Large-scale w-PvP campaigns will take place, but they won't be the bread and butter of the guild's activities.

Ranks, Organization and Discipline:

Crossed out ranks are not currently in use, but will be active as the guild grows

Ranks are used solely to define soldier's duties and responsibilities and will not be handed out as rewards and encouragements, for those purposes we have commendations.

Commodore: high-ranking officer we will see at mission briefings, commendation ceremonies, promotions, musters and, if worst comes to worst, Court Martial. Commodore Conover is our Mission Control and link to the top of the Alliance command.
Captain
Lieutenant
Sergeant : squad-leader and tactical commander on the ground. In the thick of battle, be it a DMed event or a w-PvP engagement, sergeant is the one providing leadership. Guild Leader (me) starts with this rank.
Corporal: second in command to a sergeant, helps with seeing orders carried out and takes over if the sergeant is unavailable.
Private: rank-and-file soldier of the Task Force.

Military theme means a clear chain of command. Every soldier knows, at any given time, who has the authority to give orders to him and who doesn't. There will not be any shouting matches between sergeants who can't agree.

Army Discipline will be enforced, but it will not be nearly as chokingly strict as modern militaries. For instance, drinking on duty would not normally be punished while drunk and disorderly behavior would be. Getting in a fight with an officer might be overlooked if the officer in question doesn't mind it. Again, this is a military-themed guild which means that there are clear consequences and protocols to be followed. In short, we will employ following disciplinary measures. If offences persist, the severity of punishment will of course escalate. Which means you need to be caught drunk thrice to get a nasty punishment. There may be some overlap, as seriousness of an offence depends greatly on context. Getting in a fight with a soldier off duty is not the same as getting in a fight with him on the battlefield.

Admonition: that is to say, very stern talking to and a note on the record, for minor offences such as drunkenness or taking poor care of the equipment.
Reprimand : a formal and unpleasant warning and another note on the record, used for intermediary offences such as disobeying minor orders, negligence or incompetence.
Punishment : an actual punishment like additional chores or even incarceration, used for serious offences such as disobeying orders, gross incompetence.
Court Martial : a trial with the commodore as a judge, where a more harsh punishment will be given. Used for very serious offenses.
Summary Execution: what? Yes indeed. Traitors will be shot. As in permanently killed. So take a note of this if you want to role-play a horde spy.

Overall, the ranks, the hierarchy and the discipline are meant to provide the guild with the military atmosphere and make it feel more like a military organization instead of a bunch of weekend adventurers. There will not be any ridiculous, over-the-top nonsense one sees in abundance in movies. "The first and the last word that leaves your mouth is 'sir', understood?" No way.

Goals before 5.1:












Joining the Guild:


Before 5.1
Before 5.1 your character needs to be ICly in Pandaria, whether as a native Pandaren, an adventurer or even one of the soldiers who followed initial expedition. Simply contact me in-game on Suon to get started, and we will meet up and have an IC interview and evaluation. You can always use 'I was directed to you by Admiral Taylor' card if you want everything to make perfect sense.

After 5.1
After 5.1 Wild Tempest will become part of the military and deployed all over the world. That means there will be an alt serving as Recruitment Officer in Stormwind, but more about that once the time comes.


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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by erwtenpeller on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:06 am

Cool!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:23 am

Not that i'm trying to stick a spanner in the works meln, but commodore is firmly a very maritime military rank!

...Navy's dont have sergeants either. if i may suggest, swapping it for the rank of commander or colonel may be wise!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:31 am

Krogon Devilstep wrote:Not that i'm trying to stick a spanner in the works meln, but commodore is firmly a very maritime military rank!

...Navy's dont have sergeants either. if i may suggest, swapping it for the rank of commander or colonel may be wise!

That is actually the intention, at least for start. Cut off from the Alliance, on a new continent, using experienced officers at hand (which are naval) to achieve tasks that need achieving (which are land-based). The whole arrangement with the navy will likely be reworked come 5.1.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:32 am

Melnerag wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:Not that i'm trying to stick a spanner in the works meln, but commodore is firmly a very maritime military rank!

...Navy's dont have sergeants either. if i may suggest, swapping it for the rank of commander or colonel may be wise!

That is actually the intention, at least for start. Cut off from the Alliance, on a new continent, using experienced officers at hand (which are naval) to achieve tasks that need achieving (which are land-based). The whole arrangement with the navy will likely be reworked come 5.1.

ohh i see! well, thats cool... a strong maritime link eh? your the MARINES!

that just makes it infinatly much better.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Drustai on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:32 am

Krogon Devilstep wrote:Not that i'm trying to stick a spanner in the works meln, but commodore is firmly a very maritime military rank!

...Navy's dont have sergeants either. if i may suggest, swapping it for the rank of commander or colonel may be wise!

As the player of said commodore... this is intentional. The Alliance Pandaria operation is largely a navy-run endeavor so far, with Admiral Taylor in overall command. The Seventh Legion isn't even on the continent until 5.1, currently available Alliance forces includes a single squadron of frigates (the Vanguard, which ran aground, and three more north of Jade Forest) and the SI:7 operatives.

Meln's group is a paramilitary militia, not a true military unit as of yet. That being said, Meln and I have been considering the unit to ultimately become a marine force, basing off a warship, to enable them to perform expeditionary missions in multiple locations after Pandaria. As far as I understand, ground ranks are used for marines in the UK as well as the US? So the ranks shouldn't be a problem.



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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:35 am

Drustai wrote:
Krogon Devilstep wrote:Not that i'm trying to stick a spanner in the works meln, but commodore is firmly a very maritime military rank!

...Navy's dont have sergeants either. if i may suggest, swapping it for the rank of commander or colonel may be wise!

As the player of said commodore... this is intentional. The Alliance Pandaria operation is largely a navy-run endeavor so far, with Admiral Taylor in overall command. The Seventh Legion isn't even on the continent until 5.1, currently available Alliance forces includes a single squadron of frigates (the Vanguard, which ran aground, and three more north of Jade Forest) and the SI:7 operatives.

Meln's group is a paramilitary militia, not a true military unit as of yet. That being said, Meln and I have been considering the unit to ultimately become a marine force, basing off a warship, to enable them to perform expeditionary missions in multiple locations after Pandaria. As far as I understand, ground ranks are used for marines in the UK as well as the US? So the ranks shouldn't be a problem.


Yarr, as i said in my last post, i get you now! makes it that much better!

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Gilran on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:53 am

Great idea for a guild concept, sounds very promising. I wish you best of luck with it.

And if things go well, perhaps in the future there could be some joint military ops with a Dwarven Task-Force?



Last edited by Gilran on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Vaell on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:42 am

If this doesn't go well and the guild doesn't pick up, may I suggest still going forth with it but as a non-guild. So you call to arms all of the soldiers who sign up and they can simply come along and take orders from their superiors! I'd gladly do that on Vaell, for example, but I don't want him to leave Violet City.

Good luck with it though! Very Happy

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

Post by Melnerag on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:54 am

Due to some bad connection, a lot of homework and so forth the guild will be started on FRIDAY instead of today (wednesday), so sorry for delay.

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Re: [A] New Alliance Military Guild for All Races - gouging interest

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