The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Skarain on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:39 am

Tnecniw wrote:Does a simple light healing spell remove a curse made by shadow magic? or is it required to be focused on cleansing to actually remove it?

Depends on the strength of the curse. Light is certainly capable of cleansing various curses, but there is "Curse of Darkness" style things that reduce the effectiveness of Healing Spells, and may cause even negative effects/more damage based on healing. Such curses require a focused cleansing spell, or "Rule of Cool", if you want to go on a longer adventure to find a cure for the curse.

So i'd say: A simple light healing spell may remove an equally simple shadow magic curse, but there are many "strong" curses that may require a more focused Lighty Cleansing effort, if not the aid of a Warlock/Mage/specialized Curse Breaker. Whatever the plot demands.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by siegmund on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:06 am

erwtenpeller wrote:Judge for yourself:
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You should have if already linked game mechanics linked all of the relevant ones.

Skarain explained it neatly though anyway so not much more to say!

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Thelos on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:54 am

It is my personal belief that the effectiveness of any attempts to heal or Cleanse by the Holy Light depends on the conviction and faith of both the caster and the one being cleansed. The more pious the caster and afflicted are, the more effective the healing will be.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by erwtenpeller on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:59 am

I subscribe to that ideal.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Amaryl on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:58 am

I believe that the effectiveness of healing is dependent on whether it helps of disrupt the story/RP.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Thelos on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:08 am

Amaryl wrote:I believe that the effectiveness of healing is dependent on whether it helps of disrupt the story/RP.

Mostly this.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by erwtenpeller on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:09 am

Also that.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Muzjhath on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:23 am

On the healing issue. I am of the "Don't accept the wounding if you're not going to roleplay being wounded" But that's not here or there.
As for healing forces healing. Depends on a lot of factors and the imagination of the person treated.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Littlepip on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:05 pm

Here's my personal thoughts about healing and any sort of "Faith" based magic.

I believe that faith is required in both the healer and the wounded, the healer believes that he can heal the wound with his spell or that the light can heal the wound. While the wounded has to believe that the wound can be healed and has to trust the healer or else it shouldn't work / works less efficiently.

To clear a curse of another player it should require several things both OOC and IC, first you need the permission of the cursed player, secondly you should have a description on how powerful the spell is by either the one who cursed the player or the cursed player (If he knows how powerful the curse is, which he hopefully does.)

For IC you need to set the atmosphere, candles, runes and protections so that the curse doesn't backfire while being cleansed, secondly you need to cast a powerful cleansing spell that works quickly, the spell should take some time to cast, but work quickly once you send it on the player, dispelling the curse before it can harm the player.

Imagine Blitzkrieg of the body.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Ixirar/Kavalis on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:47 pm

I believe that faith is required in both the healer and the wounded, the healer believes that he can heal the wound with his spell or that the light can heal the wound. While the wounded has to believe that the wound can be healed and has to trust the healer or else it shouldn't work / works less efficiently.

There's nothing in the WoW Lore that supports this statement. As far as healing is concerned, the only party that needs to have faith is the healer. This is why, for example, you can heal warlocks and such, people who have no faith in the light. Another point I'd like to make on this matter: The meaning of having faith in the light. Religious faith is often interpreted to mean "the faith that X Deity exists". Even in a real life context, this doesn't cover what it means to have faith. I'll use myself as an example. When I talk about my faith, I don't mean my belief in God's existence. God's existence is not a matter of faith for me, it's a given. It's the base upon which all my faith is built. As such, God existing isn't a matter of -faith- for me, it's just how it is. Likewise, in the warcraft universe, when the Draenei speak of faith, I don't think they mean "You must believe that the light is there". Every single person in the Warcraft universe can observe and experience the light's power. It -is- there. Plain and visible. Instead of "Faith", I'd say "devotion" is a much more fitting word to describe what the term actually refers to. In order for the light to heed your call, you must be -devoted- to your cause. The faith aspect of it, from my interpretation, is your belief in your cause. That's why you see evil paladins in the Scarlet Crusade. Those people -don't- realise that what they're doing is evil. They fully believe that they're doing the light's will, and as such their mind is free of doubt. This is the faith that you need to use the light. Believe that your cause is just. The light isn't a sentient being in the same way that the elements are, for example. For this reason, the notion that the person getting healed needs faith for the heal to work is absolutely obsolete. If the healer's faith is strong, his heals will work.

For IC you need to set the atmosphere, candles, runes and protections so that the curse doesn't backfire while being cleansed, secondly you need to cast a powerful cleansing spell that works quickly, the spell should take some time to cast, but work quickly once you send it on the player, dispelling the curse before it can harm the player.

I'd also like some sources on this. The only hints I've been able to find on how dispels work are from game mechanics, namely that the respective spells are all instant cast and require no reagents. There's also nothing to suggest that there are different cleansing spells with different power levels. To my understanding, the cleansing spell is the same no matter which paladin is casting it, the only difference is how powerful the paladin is. There's also the purpose of reagents in spell casting: There's nothing to suggest that you need reagents to, as you put it, "make sure that the curse doesn't backfire." The purpose of reagents, as far as I've been able to discern from the game, is to serve as a spell focus. For example in the case of class buffs in vanilla, TBC and WLK, you could either cast the buff on every individual player, or you could use your reagents as a spell focus to enhance the spell to grant all your group the benefits of your buff.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Amaryl on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:47 pm

Or if you can't be arsed "/e cleanse %T with the uber power of the holy light"

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Vaell on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:13 pm

I have my mage, Vaell, believe that the light is actually just another more mysterious force of magic and there's nothing divine about it.

Faith is believing in something's dvinity and putting your trust in it. A Paladin trusts the light to be there when he needs it. It's built on hope, trust and a belief in a just cause. whereas a Mage's magic is built upon learning, knowledge and training.

Like Amaryl said, it depends on the situation. Healing does have the capability to save someone from a ridiculously brutal death - but that's not necessarily the coolest or most exciting way to tell a story.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by erwtenpeller on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:56 pm

omg Vaell I am in love with that reply.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Tnecniw on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:05 am

my character cursed another one (he was okay with it) with nightmares. (as a small revenge) the curse itself was a quite powerful one. But he then the next day said it didn't count anymore since he was healed when he was hurt. so the curse was also removed (though not specified on)

I don't know what to belive with it

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by erwtenpeller on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:46 am

Guess he just did't want to play a cursed person.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by siegmund on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:05 am

Probably he got bored with it fast, didn't have enough motiation or inspiration to RP someone who had nightmares last night.

Though overall cleaning a curse would be surely a bit diffrent then healing a wound least in my opinion.

Tough luck.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by siegmund on Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:23 am

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by erwtenpeller on Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:28 am

Context?

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Swan Emperor Arenfel on Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:49 am

erwtenpeller wrote:Context?

Sounds like entropic fire. The green fire warlocks use? The wording is similar but yeah, some context would be nice.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Drustai on Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:59 am

That quote is specifically in reference to fel, yes. It is followed up by a later clarification: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The contextual conversation for that is proving impossible for me to find though. I really hate twitter. Why is this a thing? It's got to be the most user-unfriendly social media ever.


But anyway, those tweets are basically saying, "Demons are not the source of fel, fel comes from destroying something else."

AKA, Sacrificial Magic, as so named by the Doomguards in the Green Fire quest line.


And yes, that quote among some other various new lore snippets around necessitate some rewriting of sections of this. Which I'll do when I can be assed to get around to it.


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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by siegmund on Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:04 am

Yes the question was if demons are the source of fel.

Also forgot to link this newer one as well

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Regarding fel and necromancy.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Drustai on Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:10 am

... and that one I hadn't seen. Thanks.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Swan Emperor Arenfel on Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:50 am

siegmund wrote:Yes the question was if demons are the source of fel.

Also forgot to link this newer one as well

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Regarding fel and necromancy.

Why was this ever up for debate?

@Drustai: Aye. The man asking the question only has three tweets on his profile so I presume they're old, deleted, and the historian dude is only getting around to them now?

I like how he's got a Timewalkers tabard. God I wish we could get those.

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by Littlepip on Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:13 pm

(( Yay for necro posting an old post. But to be honest this thing is to important to not be up top.
This could be me asking silly question again tho, if so just facepalm and ignore it.))

Silly Questions 1:

Drustai wrote:A bird flies not because it has wings, but because all birds possess the Simple Runic pattern of flight.

This part doesn't make any sense to me, I mean we got science proving how the birds fly. The bees I understand tho, science still doesn't understand how they fly with their heavy body.

I personally think that this should be changed to dragons and such because they don't make any sense and are magical creatures so it would make sense in them having some kind of magical aid to keep them in the air. While the birds if they had such a rune in them gives me the question of.. Why do they flap their wings to keep them in the air? Why do they have feathers instead of thick leather skin to protect themselves? How did it get there and so on and so on..

Possible Answer: The rune just defines them, it doesn't make them fly in itself.

Silly Questions 2:

Drustai wrote:Consider a table. Why is it a table? Because its soul defines it as a table. Its spiritual essence, its cosmic plan, its internal configuration, has defined that the elements it is comprised of are assembled in such a manner as to be a table.

A table isn't simply a table, it has a special look on it, details on it that makes it special sometimes. If I were to transmute a chair into a table how would the transmuted table choose the look, or would you decide it yourself? Would you change its soul too look like what it is? How do you change the soul of the item?

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Re: The Magnificent Manual of Mastering Mysticism: A Guide to Magic

Post by siegmund on Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:48 pm

For your first question the point is that there is a lot of theorycrafting and bit personal thoughts in bits here as well as that's it's a guide you don't have to take everything that serious. You can go circles around if you want to discuss how physics works in WoW in relation to magic it somehow does but more magical thinking would be that it's full on all magic.

For the second question just as well. Plus "soul" of a table surely isn't ment in literal sense as say a humans soul, but more ment as it later gives other examples using various words -> "spiritual essence, its cosmic plan, its internal configuration"


DISCLAIMER: The following is not intended to tell you how to RP. It merely offers suggestions and advice to aid in your roleplaying. If you disagree with something stated herein, do not feel like you are forced to follow it. Use what fits, discard what doesn’t.

Additional Disclaimer: New lore has disproven some of the theory-crafting present in this, and I hope to eventually get around to updating those sections. Keep this in mind when reading.

Of course not all of the guide is theorycrafting, but for the part you're asking about it's prety much I belive.

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