Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

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Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Xen-tau on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:16 am

An article in the Silvermoon Times, national matters:

Ever since nation took back the Sunwell, and with that the road to a glorious rebuilding of Quel'thalas is being paved. This has also struck the attention of the quel'dorei, and they are trying their best to get take a place in Silvermoon society.

The Grand Embassy has made clear that the stance on quel'dorei are that they are traitors to the state, and shall be treated as such. It is known that they claim that this is their land, but the truth is simple. If one abandons their children, it is no longer their child. If the child has risen and become more powerful, it does not matter if the father or mother wants their child back. It is no longer their child. The Quel'dorei have abandoned the Sin'dorei in the rebuilding or protection of their lands, and are thereby no longer the "fathers or mothers" of the child we all call Quel'thalas.

Ofcourse, one with evil plans does not stop when nobody answers the door. The Quel'dorei have found their way into the Argents rank. The citizens of Silvermoon are requested not to interact with the Argent, as their purpose in the city is a diplomatic one. If you could please inform a member of our nations protecting forces(one of Silvermoons army units, blood knight, farstrider or magister)about the presence of a 'neutral' quel'dorei, he or she will take care of the paperwork and an ambassador will make sure the Quel'dorei leaves or that it starts the immigration process.

Do not let the enemy get close to you, do not believe them on their blue eyes. Blue is the colour of the Quel'dorei, blue is the colour of the Alliance. Blue is the colour of danger. The Grand Embassy has mentioned to be willing to inform their citizens with any questions they have.

Stand proud citizens of Quel'thalas. Belore will make Silvermoon rise again.


OOC:

I hope this is a somewhat believable as a Silvermoon Article, even though it does sound alot like a letter. It is so hard to kill a toon, so I decided on the "capture and convert" approach, even though most Quel'dorei are more likely to disappear when they enter Silvermoon.

_____________________________________________________
Horde:
Sin'dorei Aishling Silversun - Crimson Imperium - Working in Silvermoon
Pandaren Houjin Monk: Mao-Teng Swiftstrike - Traveling.
Alliance:
Human(Worgen) Death Knight Aeron Turner - Killing, somewhere.
(A)Pandaren Tushui Monk: Xen-Tau Swiftstrike - Finding a place to live


Idea borrowed from: Nilda Meyrick and Monrena

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Nessra Sunwhisper on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:32 am

OOC:
It seems to be the latest fashion to roleplay high elves in Silvermoon.... Even more popular than vampires and dragons. And to be quite frank, I'm not sure which one of the three is worst Neutral

I don't really see it plausible for high elves to enter the city, not even in Argent colors, unless they are on strictly official business and have guards to escort them. Same goes for any other member of the Alliance. You don't see draeneis hanging around the bar in Argent tabards either.

If someone really wants to roleplay a high elf, go for it. But please do it in places where it actually makes sense, such as Dalaran. Or if you're into extreme sports, in Stormwind. Hell, even hiding in Eversong woods makes sense if your character is elusive enough to not get caught. But for the love of god, strolling around the city without a care in the world, and with no attempts at hiding their blue eyes...? It's silly.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Iralan on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:33 am

It's quite well written and it emphasises the views which I favour as well^^

It's interesting that Argents have so little grasp of diplomacy, that they send envoys represented by people ('Quel' Dorei), that will alienate the inhabitants of the city the most


Althouth OOCly I asume it's an action of one or few individuals trying to be special and hiding behind "imunity" of an "diplomat".

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Kristeas Sunbinder on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:38 am

OOC:
*likes*, all in favor of reeducating high elves.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Antistia on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:54 am

I would like to suggest establishing "reeducation camps". With some very heavy handed guards.

On a more important note: well written. I liked how you used the color blue to connect them to the Alliance.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Morinth on Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:24 am

Many people have attempted to re-educate my pirate. Until they figured it's so much easier just to supply her with free rum when they want her to behave.

My Spellbreaker Fio would just LOVE to help with the... re-education. :>


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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Iralan on Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:51 am

The only cure for this imperfection is either merciful death (anyway we're freeing the mongrels from their sorry state) or forceful resetting of one's mindset by the guiding hand of our little Sunfury society:- ) *winky wink*

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Malathir on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:25 pm

Interesting... Approach to say the least. But still a pointless one Aishling. The Silver Covenant are already in Quel'Thalas. Brightwing basically told the Regent Lords messenger to shut up and put up. The Ranger General, responsible for the Lands security. See's no flaw in their being there. Further emphasised by the Cleansing of Quel'Delar questchain. So what one "Magistrix" says on the matter will not affect the "Stance" on Quel'dorei.

All in all nicely written but fruitless.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by itsy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:27 pm

Erm... Bit of a difference between them being tolerated in helping with the Zul'Aman situation (which is now, from an IC PoV, over) and blithely wandering around Silvermoon Smile

EDIT: Not sure the snide attitude and snarky quotation marks are really needed, either.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Malathir on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:33 pm

Wandering would be a poor choice of wording to be quite honest. Seems the usual thing yet again. Someone fails to ask the right questions Icly. Doesn't like that they don't get what they want. And so go to the forums as a means of looking for solace, when in reality those they are complaining against tend to have reason for their motives Icly that the writer fails to understand.

And I read Nessras post aswell. Regarding RPing in Dalaran. That has been and is done. But seeing Sin'dorei Marching around the city training as if it's theirs, befor returning to complain about Quel'dorei makes the thought of Dala RP sickening to say the least.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Xen-tau on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:52 pm

It actually is quite accurate. What you witness in the Ghostlands is actually an internal struggle in Quel'thalas. It is safe to say the High Elves are allowed in the Ghostlands to some extend, but the Regent-Lord disagrees with it. The magisters and Blood Knights will probably see the vision I wrote.

Not only that, most Sin'dorei will still hate the quel'dorei.

It is not the action of "one magister", it is the action of "one Ranger-General of the Farstriders"(so not the army, just the farstriders) that makes you believe they are accepted in Silvermoon. Their presence there is most likely illegal. They still are not part of Silvermoon society, and most likely will never be part of it.

_____________________________________________________
Horde:
Sin'dorei Aishling Silversun - Crimson Imperium - Working in Silvermoon
Pandaren Houjin Monk: Mao-Teng Swiftstrike - Traveling.
Alliance:
Human(Worgen) Death Knight Aeron Turner - Killing, somewhere.
(A)Pandaren Tushui Monk: Xen-Tau Swiftstrike - Finding a place to live


Idea borrowed from: Nilda Meyrick and Monrena

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Morinth on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:44 pm

Iralan wrote:The only cure for this imperfection is either merciful death (anyway we're freeing the mongrels from their sorry state) or forceful resetting of one's mindset by the guiding hand of our little Sunfury society:- ) *winky wink*

They've tried and failed, bro. :3 Now they just pat Morinth on the head, take her snarky comments and insults, and ask her help when they need some REAL firepower. XD

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Iralan on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:40 pm

I was not referring to you miss drunken pirate :-) *hug*

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Malathir on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:05 pm

Aishling wrote:It actually is quite accurate. What you witness in the Ghostlands is actually an internal struggle in Quel'thalas. It is safe to say the High Elves are allowed in the Ghostlands to some extend, but the Regent-Lord disagrees with it. The magisters and Blood Knights will probably see the vision I wrote.

Not only that, most Sin'dorei will still hate the quel'dorei.

It is not the action of "one magister", it is the action of "one Ranger-General of the Farstriders"(so not the army, just the farstriders) that makes you believe they are accepted in Silvermoon. Their presence there is most likely illegal. They still are not part of Silvermoon society, and most likely will never be part of it.

Once more you miss the point completely. That one Ranger General, is charged with the defense of Quel'Thalas. That one Ranger General. Does not see the Quel'dorei as a threat, but a means of aid. That one Ranger Generals word. Given his duties. Ranks far higher than the Bloodknights within the walls. And on the subject of the Silvermoon Society. Actually don't even get me started on that one.

But once again the Argents remains "Neutral" and in all honesty the Sin'dorei should be kissing some major a** seeing as their faliure to maintain their own borders well enough is instead placing more work on the Argents doing their jobs for em from the Plaguelands.

Most of the High Elves couldn't give two damns about being accepted by a bunch of mana addicts, and I assume this is where you start to bring in more Lore in an attempt to argue this case further. And no doubt somewhere along the lines someone'll bring in books so on but Blizzard have stated Lore from the past is no longer Canon. The Covenant are in Quel'Thalas for a reason. The Quel'Delar Questchain, where both Sin'dorei and Quel'dorei stood together, and the cleansing of the sunwell which will inevitably revert the Sin'dorei back to what they were. Was all implemented for a reason.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2283549208 For further Blue Posts concerning the state of things. The Belf Eyes being green question is an interesting one, I'll be gone for few days but in that time I will find the links following on from the cleansing of the Sunweell and what it will means and post it when I get back.

So again I applaud the enthusiasm Aishling, but nothing in this game is written in stone. It won't be long before Metzen turns his focus fully to the Bloodelves once again and updates their Lore. So until then keep on tryin' !

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Dolerien on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:49 pm

Blood Elves are almost genetically programmed to hate most races. They are massively arrogant when it comes to relationships with other races. In regards to the Quel'dorei:

The Magisters would see the Quel'dorei as weak, failing to embrace the higher powers that the Sin'dorei have access to.
The Blood Knights probably don't appreciate the revulsion the High Elves would show them for learning to harness the Light forcefully.
The Farstriders are probably the most acceptive of the major three, as they spent most of their time away from the corruption of Silvermoon politics and seem to be more concerned about actually protecting the realm than arguing about who is actually doing the protecting.
As always, there would be exceptions to these rules, but generally, I think, these are their views.

Theron will always fall on the side of the Horde's stance, that Quel'dorei should not be allowed to garner the secrets Quel'thalas holds, defensive measures, troop numbers etc. The conversation outside Zul'Aman supports this. I think he'd only do this officially though, as he does side with Brightwing and allows the Quel'dorei to visit the Sunwell. He appreciates the Sin and Quel'dorei's shared heritage, and, I assume along with Brightwing again, has freely allowed Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher to oversee the Reliquary, an elf that quite openly wants to unify the two races again.

In conclusion, I think that the leadership of Silvermoon would tolerate the Quel'dorei's presence, and even welcome them. Officially, whilst under the iron boot of Orgrimmar, they can't afford too.

As Sin and Quel'dorei are physically similar in so many ways, I would not see a problem for a Quel'dorei to walk the streets if they kept their eyes hidden from view and the fact that they are not Sin'dorei a secret. But then, a mysterious somewhat masked elf trying to be ignored could cause some suspicion.

_____________________________________________________

[H] Dolerien Sunwing - Magister of Quel'thalas
[A] Lestor Ravenquill - Ranger Captain of Rangers of Elwynn

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Darilas on Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:53 pm

Goggles! Even though you're never sure when they are out of fashion again. Razz


On a more serious note, this is an interesting discussion and I'm curious to see where it goes. My characters will not welcome the Quel'dorei back that easily, but I like the RP possibilities this is generating.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Xen-tau on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:48 am

-writes on note: 'Ban goggles'-

Silvermoon is considered a totalitarian and oppressing regime, with Lor'themar as it's leader and the others as his advisors. The article has been written with that mindset. It only explains the bad part, the propaganda of the Sin'dorei. I doubt the story that Brightwing disobeyed an order from Lor'themar will hit the papers, and I made sure I did not write down any positive points of the Quel'dorei.

And it's like Abulos said, a blood elf is made to hate others. The xenophobia is part of their culture. They are also considered the "pretty race", because if they are not perfect in at least the looks, it is not unlikely for them to kill themselves. (Undead is an exception ofcourse...).

If the lore turns to Blood Elf and High Elf rejoining one another, the "official statement" will ofcourse change, as is with all propaganda. Then the article would be full of encouraging words and victories our race had with the quel'dorei etc. etc.

_____________________________________________________
Horde:
Sin'dorei Aishling Silversun - Crimson Imperium - Working in Silvermoon
Pandaren Houjin Monk: Mao-Teng Swiftstrike - Traveling.
Alliance:
Human(Worgen) Death Knight Aeron Turner - Killing, somewhere.
(A)Pandaren Tushui Monk: Xen-Tau Swiftstrike - Finding a place to live


Idea borrowed from: Nilda Meyrick and Monrena

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Kristeas Sunbinder on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:18 am

That High Elves are allowed onto Quel'danas can't be linked to them being allowed into Silvermoon. Neither side would benefit from an attack on/siege of the Sunwell. The High Elves (alliance) wouldn't be happy, I doubt the Draenei would be happy (alliance) since I imagine it would be a place of importance for
them. The Blood Elves (horde) would be raging something hard. I wouldn't be surprised if allowing the High Elves to come to the Sunwell is a thank you to the Draenei, note the Draenei/High Elf outpost in the Hinterlands (Quel'danil lodge), since I can't remember any High Elves helping in the retaking, a big thing since how much have High Elves done for Quel'thalas (Argent Crusade hardly counts, since then all the Blood Elves that helped there should have entrance to Alliance cities and such) and there are enough examples of High Elves and Blood Elves being hostile to each other.

However Silvermoon is a Horde Capital, putting it out of the picture would be good for the Alliance.

At the Quel'delar questline, if I remember right, the High Elves there insult Lor'themar, wich could sour his disposition that would lead to this "no u" on Brightwings call for High Elf reinforcements.

Bloodwatcher would like to see a reunited people, the Reliquary being something that Lor'themar had no hand in reestablishing, but that hidden council. The reunification could just be the reeducation camps.
It could also be in Lor'themars favor to have a outspoken proponent of reunification somehwere away from Silvermoon.

What I extrapolate from the given data regarding High Elves, Silvermoon and Lor'themar, is that Lor'themar could in the future allow High Elves, but only as he allows it and when he allows it.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Saevir on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:06 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:
What I extrapolate from the given data regarding High Elves, Silvermoon
and Lor'themar, is that Lor'themar could in the future allow High Elves,
but only as he allows it and when he allows it.

That's exactly it. The Lor'themar short story established that the entire point, in his view, of cracking down on dissidents was to make sure that society in quel'thalas didn't completely fall apart due to squabbling while it was already weakened. He outright stated in the story that there's no ill will toward those high elves that disagreed with him, and even offers the ones residing at the borders of Quel'thalas supplies and aid after Kael'thas was killed (they flat-out rejected any association, due to attacks against them by the forsaken).

He's not about to let them try to change the course of blood elven society however, and the vast majority of high elves seemingly won't even consider the notion of joining it in its current form anyway.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Antistia on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:17 am

What I extrapolate from the given data regarding High Elves, Silvermoon
and Lor'themar, is that Lor'themar could in the future allow High Elves,
but only as he allows it and when he allows it.

This, plus what Brightwing has done doesn't go beyond the direct military necessity. If Theron agrees with Brightwing's tactics, it just means he agrees with using Vereesa & co to fight the Amani. It's a military consideration, not a political one.

After all, Brightwing appeals to his own authority as ranger-general and his task to defend Quel'Thalas militarily. It's a military matter and extends, at utmost, to all military matters. However, that is a broad interpretation of Brightwing's statement. As we do not see it apply to all military matters (the Helf involvement, that is), it is prudent to be conservative in our interpretation of the matter and conclude that it only extends to this particular situation.
Plus, I don't know of any Helves fighting elsewhere for Quel'Thalas and in Quel'Thalas.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Kaleil Sunstrike on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:49 am

So, basically the Argent Crusade have been hit with a bad case of memory loss and have sent Alliance representatives into Horde cities? Ah lore wise that sure does make perfect sence...

Also, redo your ZA quests and see what is actually said. High Elves still do claim Quel'thalas as their home actually wanting to be there however is a complete different matter, they do not want to be there, they just want to kill Trolls and that's it! They don't want to go Silvermoon and show how awesome and powerfull they are (remember there are hardly any High elfs left) assuming they did do that it would start a war. Wars the last thing they need it's just a shame do many people can sit behind a keyboard and play untouchable ones.

With that said, I have actually met a few very good High Elf players my favourite one was Iluness, she accepted Sin'Dorei culture and rolled with it. Now that would most likely be accepted... Something tells me starting fights and being big bad tough guys would not be.


Why amI even actually bothering saying anything? Everyone's apparently wrong according to this guy. I guess it's because I'm a pathetic immature father ain't it. :-p

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Malathir on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:40 pm

Taking things out of game once again Kaleil... Pitty. Take a look around Silvermoon, just how many Quel'Dorei have you seen lately? I mean, we sit and laugh at watching Quel'dorei hating Bloodelves prancing around Dalaran... Nothing funnier to be honest. But yeah, you just have a gander around Silvermoon hmm? You'd be suprised. You're grasping at straws mate and kudos to trying to bring your out of game life into an ingame debate. Well done. Much respect.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Malathir on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:47 pm

While I'm at it.
"Alliance representatives into Horde cities? Ah lore wise that sure does make perfect sence... "
"With that said, I have actually met a few very good High Elf players my favourite one was Iluness, she accepted Sin'Dorei culture and rolled with it. "

Quite the contradiction. But while we are on the basis of all of this fitting in, make sure you do some research about a character before you jump to the conclusion of "Big bad tough guys" so on. As for the Crusade they do not take sides in anything, seeing as they are united as one.

Even funnier that most of the Crusade players have taken to RPing in New Hearthglen of course you'd know that if you didn't come into a forum post a month later *Cough*

And nobody said any of the High Elf players were against Sin'dorei culture. Minus the whole Fel Leeching business there's not much difference so that is you assuming characters you do not know.

But since we're on the subject of bothering... Same could be said in regards to you. Unable to diffuse a situation so resorting to lol, a situation that was then diffused by oh... Quel'dorei players. Smile Have a nice evening guy.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Nessra Sunwhisper on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:52 pm


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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

Post by Tso/Feloreth on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:06 pm

To be honest... You make your arguments look pretty silly when presenting them while hating.

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Re: Quel'dorei and Quel'thalas

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