[Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

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[Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 pm

World-PvP, a Guide

i had best start with a very clear disclaimer. i will not dictate my views as law, you are free as players to decide how you play, and what rules you follow in world pvp. all that follows here is a guide to recomended strategy and tactics to allow new World-pvp leaders an insight and some ideas for their coming careers. at the end of the guide will be a chapter on my own opinions regarding rule sets and Ethos. I encourage you to read the guide, the last chapter however you may take with a pinch of salt. Thankyou for taking the time to read this guide, the sum total of my long and daunting military service on Defias brotherhood, Enjoy!

what NOT to do

Lets start off with some donts, its the best way to approach this and will clear up some things before you start on your world conquering campaigns, as we want to avoid school boy errors first.

Firstly, for example, Napoleon didnt conquer most of europe, winning over 200 battles by forming a long straight line and charging at his enemies head on. oh no, this insane concept that some people have that both armies, horde and alliance, have to face each other, line up and charge, is pure stupidity. The usual reason people state for it is "it makes things fair", well my answer to that is...

WHY!?

A Battle is about ultimately destroying your enemy, so that you may dominate him, his government and people. its a struggle to the death. Thus logic would dictate you can infact use Tactics, formations, suprise attacks, ambushes, terrain advantages, Cavalry charges and ranged bombardment to win the day and smash him utterly, achieving your objective.

Good, glad we got that cleared up, as its a funademental annoyance of mine and one of the key reasons battles as of 2009 onwards became boring, rigid and a pure slug match, due to such silly notions.

Now then, another pointer is to take into consideration information. You are under NO obligation to give your enemy your location, and often even to tell him your numbers. This removes the challenging aspect of scouting, and intelligence gathering. If a commander isnt smart enough to send out scouts to gauge his enemies strength, does he deserve to win? perhaps not, does he deserve to be flanked and surrounded? more likely so. Dont Tell your enemy your every action, otherwise he can perhaps Ic'ly, and even OOC'ly use it to his or her advantage.

You may have gathered from the last two pointers that it is an old school ideal (thus one of my ideals) that people have to Earn victory in World pvp, not merely show up and hope for the best. Well, keep this in mind, as from sme of the Servers most famous battles, thats how it worked.

Another important 'Dont' would be regarding Numbers. Under no cimrcumstances should you rely purely on numbers in world pvp, it has been proven on multiple occasions by many leaders, myself included, that Tactics and cunning can overcome the Zerg any day. If you do however choose to Depend upon numbers, do so baring in mind that your enemy can use such a Strength of yours against you to cause a 'catalclysmic' defeat.

Now then, that should just about cover the 'donts'. I've stated these so you the reader can clear them from your mind before reading any further. If you do however ignore these, please bare in mind, some of the boggest defeats in server history can trace their roots back to ... yes, Simple line tactics, Zerging and telling your enemy your every move.

Leadership

Leadership, the position of a War leader in itself is important, you are IC the symbol of authority, control and the central hub of order and command. people rely on you to make the right calls, and use your cunning to guide them to victory. Thus some basic principles need to be maintained.

1) Dont Ever allow someone else to counter your orders and undermine your authority, confusion regarding who's in charge and counter productive orders can tear armies apart, i've seen it happen to disastrous effect on numerous occasions. Use Raid warning to assert your Leadership, and give commands clearly, combined with Yells.

2) place a raid marker over your head, this will allow everyone in your group or raid to clearly see your position, and know who to follow. subsequently, if your diving into a number of smaller groups, you can place raid markers on the leaders of smaller groups too.

3) Gather all the information. Its important you assess the territory, terain and enemy before you charge hea dlong into battle, weighing up all the odds, advantages and disadvantages. Good use of scouts, foresight and planning can vastly increase your odds.

4) Be flexible. if your Hell bent on a particular course of action you risk being forced by an adaptive enemy into a bad position. however if your remain flexible, you can Adapt as situations in the field change.

5) Be Firm. if you Give an order and its ignored or not noticed, Firmly remind people of the position they need to be in, or what they should be doing. small groups going rogue can massively effect the course and flow of a battle, and even cause defeat.

6) Keep good OOC contact with the opposing leader. if the battle has ben arranged, its a good idea to have a good line of OOC communication with the opposing leader, to maintain order, and avoid such things as griefing, musunderstandings and drama. nobody likes drama, Everyone loves fun.

7) Use time wisely. if you spend all your time forming up elabortate formations, marching in slow rank, then you can waste valuable time that your enemy can use against you. this can be used in many examples, but time as a factor can be vital regarding pre-decided objectives and regarding the position of your enemy and allies alike.

8] Tunnel Vision. a particular danger, if you get too Absorbed into a fight, you cant control it properly, and can be taken by suprise. its often a good idea to step back and lead from the centre, rather than the front. Alert sharp eyes can detect Changes, tunnel vision inhibits spotting problems.

9) Today is not a good day to die. this is true, if you march to war and find yourself mightily outnumbered, outgunned and outsmarted, Nowhere is it wirrten down that you must fight and die, you can withdraw, to live and report to your superiors and allies of what has come to pass. Retreat -is- an option.

10) Advice. dont get clogged up by it. if a ful lraid is trying to get your attention with advice, suggestions and nagging, yell at them to shut up and get in line. Wars are not won by a democratic debate, their won by soldiers marching to the tune set by the general. its harsh i know, but theres nothing more mind numbing than fourty people fighting over your attention and demanding you heed their ideas.

Now thats the harsh part done with. Sadly some discipline is required, i take it more seriously than others granted, but order MUST be obtained lest the mob gains a wild mind of its own.

Organisation and Heirarchy are a point of particular note. I myself never rewarded just anyone with Liutenant status becuase they was a friend, a guildy, a Real life pal or because they'd meddled their way to it by 'politics'. No, i gave important tasks, and command of smaller groups to people who Earned the right and had shown able ability to lead. This may seem elitist, but that alone was my preference, i imagine everyone is different and may seek to evaluate differently.

Furthermore on the point of Lieutenants, it should be a permenant thought in the back of everyones head to deploy individuals leading smaller groups based on skill. Its hardly wise to send a rogue... or someone who excells in sneaky warfare, to lead a mounted flanking charge, they likely have no Experience. The same could be said for a well practiced Warrior who often leads mounted charges, he's hardly going to be subtle and able to scout stealthily. Its the matter of relevent skills that should be considered.

There are other factors you should consider when leading, one key thing is morale. Now Morale is tricky, as people love to win, and hate to lose... yet our perspective in W-pvp is all about the 'fairness'. So when one side loses, as one inevitably must, it can have a detremental effect, whereas winning all the time boosts morale (but may cause considerable over confidence may i add). Morale can be improved in a multitude of ways, perhaps you can do more social activity's with the people you RP-PvP with, a trip to the tavern never hurt. Theres also training, a valuable asset for mindset and attitude, using postive reinforcement to encourage smart and helpful actions. BUT i dont fully agree with disciplining misbehaviour either, especially in training, the trick is to challenge other players to do better, and help them do so. one to one training, practice, social RP and ooc bonds can help everyone.

Later on in this guide i will discuss tactics and terrain, but i'd just like to underline a basic principle people should hold in their minds.

P.P.P.P.P.P ... the Five P's.

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance - its a basic concept, if you walk into a situation unprepared you set yourself up for disaster, however if you come ready of mind and schedule, all may go your way.

Another Factor i think is Vital is communication. you Should attempt to have a dependable way of communicating with opposing leaders. MSN, Skype or REAL-ID are all excellent examples. use them well and treat your foes with courtesy.

Oh and one last thing, if you have the ability, get yourself a spy glass. These tools can be created by engineers and used by anyone, a very handy tool for looking over short distances. whats more, if you can, raise your cooking skill and learn to make Blackened Worg steaks. These little nibbles provide humanoid tracking as a buff, and as a non hunter class can prove Extremely useful.

To the soldiers.

Thats right, a small section for the privates, sergeants, and foot soldiers in battle. if you are reading this, then please take into account the above section.
1) dont crowd and spam your leading officer with advice and suggestions, they need their heads clear and eyes alert.
2) dont run off and follow your own initiative, a leader doesnt need to be yelling at people to get back in line.
3) dont throw a hissy fit because your not getting what you want. a raid leader may have to contend with upwards of fourty people at once, thats a Tall order in organisation terms and one person throwing their toys out of their pram isnt something they may, or even should tolerate.
4) if you do have a problem, and it absolutely must be voiced, then perhaps you should seek out one of the raid leaders lieutenants or second in command for such things. Making the pressure on a leader lighter is always a good thing.

Training

Ahh Training. one of my favourite aspects to world pvp. if an army is organised, disciplined and works well as a team, it can overcome number disadvantages with good training and organisation. in effect, the battle can be won before it even starts. heres some quick tips regarding how to go about this.

1) Organise regular guild/group events to allow a force to train together, practicing moving across a battlefield as a tight nit group, supporting each other and working as a team.

2) practice some of the tactics i will explain later in this guide, such as formations, defending a position, Mounted charges and scouting.

3) Nothing wrong with duelling, some people can benefit hugely simply from doing it more. constructive criticism IC and ooc can boost morale and the base skills of a player ion pvp (and hopefully World pvp).

4) Promote a level of standards. Teach your troops the ideas of battle you want them to follow. such as sticking together as a group, following the leader or his lieutenants. If players know out of reflex what they should be doing, then you likely wont need to waste time asserting authority, spamming yells or raid warning. it all helps with organisation.

5) practice with other groups from the same faction, exchange ideas, practice 'war-games'. this can help with all of the aspects above.

Some key things i myself would instill in any group and highly advise you to do likewise are:

a) Keep together as a group, strength un unity.
b) follow the leader, if he has a raid symbol over his head, you cant miss him/her.
c) dont ignoe orders, keep sharp and ensure you know what your meant to be doing.
d) ensure players dont enter a tunnel vision mode that impairs judgement and changes in orders.
e) ensure people know where to be in a basic battle line. You the leader should be at its centre, with heavy melee up front, healers to the rear, casters and hunters on the flanks, and stealthers on the far sides. This in effect should cause a natural response where any frontal attack means plate bear the brunt, ranged can engage effectively, healers are safe (perhaps) and stealthers can engage the enemy efficiently.

I would advise Holding training sessions around Twice a month in a relevent location. The Trick is to not bore your Troops to death with emote sit ups, but to engage their brains in the idea of moving and working as a group. This could be Taught through the formation of a Faction 'officers' or 'military' academt/school that could allow more experienced leaders to take Guilds, and even their leaders individualy on Exercises of practice sessions.

My First Training session in large was a military Exercise in loch modan, with the forces of the disciples of light, holy lightbringers, Shining strand and Dwarven rifle squad. we practiced cavaly charges and movements as a group, we took turns assasulting and defending a hill with a single narrow entrance, we practiced defending a cave mouth by use of a smoke screen (flares!). all in all in proved invaluable in the next few battles we fought as a team, as we was well versed in various tactics and had built up firm bonds.

Terrain

Terrain is an invaluable asset, and possible and a terrible curse. in this section i will explain some of its wonderful blessings and problems, area by area.

Flat ground - flat ground is one of the most numerous kinds of terrain in azeroth and allows for a wide range of open field tactics, clear view and grants immense manouverability. on flat ground Cavalry or mounted players are at home, able to attack aggressively using massive flanking manouvers, by suprise or not, without much problem. Flat ground also presents the problem of a defenders nightmare, its hard to hide or defend yourself from large numbers on flat ground. my advice would be, if your keen to attack on flat ground, use mounted troops well. if your on the run or defending, dont stand around unless you must, its a terrible place to be.

My First Major victory was at the height of the covenant war at the battle of winter Veil in Arathi. The scene was simple, i was heavily outnumbered and on open ground where i could be surrounded and chased with ease. So instead of doing as my enemy anticipated (standing on high ground and making a last stand), i instead mounted up, and Repeatedly charged their flanks and rear, cutting down large groups of players by suprise, only to promptly re-mount and retreat to a position unknown where i could re-attack again. Thanks to the open terrain, i could approach from any direction, and my enemy had no locations to hide in.

Hills and mountains - highlands, lowlands, valleys, cracks, ravines, hills, mountains and narrow passes. a defenders paradise. if you've seen the fill '300' youl understand immediatly what important a narrow pass or high ground can have for a defender. it allows for a superior area of view and a supreme defending position where you can draw a foe into a direct attack. whats more, it makes cavalry weak in base terms, they cant flank so easily or not at all and may be reduced to basic frontal charges which can be blocked and mowed down. my advice regarding this teerain is to get up high, and get your enemy low so your looking down at him. if your fighting between two points of high ground, you can ensure your enemy has to attack frontally, negating any suprise or flanking attacks. If you however are the attacker and your enemy has such good positions, use scouts to work out weak points and exploit them, perhaps he doesnt have all the approaches covered and can be attacked from another angle?

an Excellent Example of this sort of terrain use is the Dwarven rifle squad Against the orcs of the red blade in the barrens (what is now the northern barrens). The Dwarves had positioned themselves at the summit of the massive hill south west of the crossroads, leaving the orcs Few avenues of attack to reach them. The dwarves, from their wonderful lookout position and with the use of their many eagle eyes (lots of hunters!), always saw the orcs coming, could turn to face the narrow slope they had to run up, and blocked it. However, this may have worked for a while, but the orcs Quickly worked out that theres was multiple slopes and thus charged up two at once on mounts, suprising the dwarves and eventually winning the day. Dont get too over confident when defending!

Woodlands - Dense Forest is the ambushers paradise, somewhere troops can be hidden and where attackers or defenders can mask their numbers and even position through a haze of tree's, swamp bush or foliage. personaly i have used such Terrain alot and to good effect. Such zones often have main roads which armies will (foolishly) use to move around, and with tree's on both sides, you can position yourself to charge them from both sides as they move along the path. Woodland also presents other problems, Scouting can be harder, scouts can miss or even walk right past the enemy and not even realise it due to the haze of obstacles, in these circumstances its often wise to be Extremely alert and to watch all flanks, front, sides and back at all times. the swamp of sorrows and dustwallow fall under this category of course, but with the added problem of marshy water patches, it can be difficult to attack, or even defend due to the 'swimming' problem. My Ultimate advice in this area, is to be vigilant and use your scouts effectively.

At the Height of the Vanguard war in the Middle of the burning crusade Expansion, a battle was fought in ashenvale between myself and my army, and the forces led by kozgugore. We met facing each other on a bridge over the farralfen river. There we fought at a stalemate, until i eventually found that the Horde had sent rogues to my rear, and began killing my healers. the result was a prompt route past raynewood and eventually to Astranaar. However i wasnt happy with the position, i didnt want the Horde to force me into a place i had no particular desire to go to. Thus i positioned my army North of the road outside the eastern side of Astrannar, in the woods. This meant as soon as the horde arrived they was facing the city in a long marching line, allowing me to charge straight into their unprotected and unsuspecting flank. The Result was chaos, but a Victory for the Alliance and one of the most fun battles i've ever had.

Towns and city's - Urban warfare can be problematic in many senses, a town or city, in ruins or not, can be a defenders dream, or an attackers paradise depending on how vantage points, narrow streets and houses are used. its all together usually a messy affair if numbers are equal. Try to gain high points, and work out the best avenue to the heart of your enemies forces, Scouts play a pivotal roll as ever and should be consulted and briefed closely on what exactly your after, and what they find. often enough, in a Siege its best a Defender also gauge his defensive positions, high points and fall back positions carefully to ensure he isnt taken by suprise. This much the same counts for an attacker in a siege, use your noggin and consider the stages a fight may take, nobody wants to charge a keep to find themselves bottlenecked and attacked from all sides as soon as they walk through the gate. Planning is important, as is patience and foresight.

With a Siege, its Vitally important you dont make the mistake of presuming your enemy is stupid. Stromgarde has been attacked a dozen times and will likely be many times more. When the Horde actually managed to hold it for a week during WoTLK, we planned our defence impecably. we defendded from the bridge over the main street, blocking the way into the chapel area, and allowing us a vantage point to bombard any who attacked the main gate. As soon as the alliance charged through... they couldnt reach us, and found multiple forms of AOE falling on their heads, wiping their raid promptly. this happened again, when they charged the bridge from the 'safe area' trying to reach the chapel. The third time though, they did so on mounts, meaning they got passed our vantage points, and AoE before we could stop them... we wiped. In a Siege, plan your defence, and your attack, and be cautious!

Islands - small islands and any area that has to be reached by sea or long stretches of water can be problematic for any attacker, you have to traverse possibly over open water (unless your clever enough to have worked out a way to approach underwater) where your enemy has you in full view. as a defender, islands can be a blessing, using the slowing effect of water and the mechanic efect it has regarding what a player can and cant see to full advantage can be crushing.

i myself have no real experience with such battles, all i can do is give some simple advice regarding the use of udnerwater breathing to mask your approach, or even a Death knights ice walk to charge in from any direction you please, making the island more like a Trap the defender has set himself up in.

Scouting

Scouting is one of the most important aspects to a battle, it can help decide how a fight begins, where and often with what numbers. here are some points as to how to best use this important aspect to world-pvp. like i stated earlier in the leadership section, get yourself a spy glass and cook up some Blackened worg steaks for the humanoid tracking, this will allow you some limited short range scouting ability.

1) Rogues, hunters, Cat druids and shamans all make excellent scouts. Using stealth to search out, and stalk an enemy force closely is wonderful for close observation, and information gathering, but the same can be said of a hunters Eagle eye or a shamans far sight. personally i preffer shamans, their far sight can be re used to amazing ranges and still allows for excellent intelligence gathering.

2) dont send to many! you dotn want half your army out scouting, they can be picked off and you left vulnerable at the core. alot of people enjoy volunteering for the job, especially classes that have no advantages doing so. bonk them on the noggin ,tell them to get back into line and leave it to the pro's.

3) be careful of what you see, sometimes your enemy may be trying to lure you into taking a particular course of action. this may be in regards to fall back positions he could have, terrain, hidden troops or generally some form of deception. get all the facts before you act.

4) be clear with your scouts on what you want, what your looking for and what you want them to report back, clear simple orders can increase the yield of important infoprmation.

5) players on flying mounts can be used for scouting, however, they in turn can be spotted. this can cause your enemy to act negatively and result in your being deceived, or the scout simply shot down. if you do however wish to use such scouts, be cautious, its a whole new form of scouting and even with my knowledge i have limited experience using them.

Scouts Themselves need to be organised. I like sending out two rogues to follow an army and report it, while a shaman or Hunter locates them. This Means the glow effect from far-sight and Eagleye is less likely to be spotted. Once located the rogues can be dispatched to stalk the enemy Force. One rogue should be looking at the enemy's numbers, class make up, Guilds (this can say alot about tactics) and as well as possible leadership. The Second Scout should be looking into nearby terrain and considering possible positions and outcomes.

As a Scout looking at an enemy Force, i recommend taking note of the following:

Specific Position and Nearby Terrain - "Spartans do not ask how many, merely where" - Courageous indeed. But the spartans did hold off 200,000 persians with 200 men for 2 days by merely scouting locations well. Take Note of High ground, Flat ground, narrow choke points and graveyards. All these things can be vital.

Numbers - Obvious perhaps, but a Scout should be more considering the numbers in a 'guild' or 'sub' groups when they make movements. This may allow a commander to udnerstand which guild or group will be the Infantry, Cavalry, air group, Healing support, Ranged or bombardment... or even Generic rank and file.

Class Composition - Trivial perhaps, but an army made up primarily of paladins can be Extremely difficult to kill. or perhaps a force entirely made up of Night elves? the last thing you need is to have them all Shadowmeld and wait in ambush. Take key note of healers too, it may sound cruel, but they can make or break a battle simply by Buffing.

Basic tactics for beginners

As Explained earlier, the notion that armies must face off in basic lines as a mandatory point, is rediculous, to read this section well!

1) the hammer and anvil - likely one of my favourite tactics, best used in open ground. using three quaters of your force as an infantry group, approach the enmy from the front, while the alst quater, mount up, circle around and charge them in the rear or side when battle is joined. An excellent tactic on flat ground and forcing your enemy on the run.

2) The Kozgugore Khan - this Tactic won me my first ever major battle, defeating an army twice the size of my own, and paving the road to many more victorys. the idea is essentially to use an all mounted force, and to quickly and swifly circle around your enemy, attacking him by suprise in the flank or rear. it can be a devestating tacctic that quickly mops up the enemy with brutal efficiency. suprise is key, so ensure you re mount promptly and move away to a distant position to attempt a re-try. try not to use it on a well entrenched enemy on high ground, you WILL die horribly. However, the last time i saw it used was in andorhal suprisingly, When kozgugore was about to be charged in the rear, he led everyone on mounts in a big circle within the city (through the streets) and right into the rear of the enemy about to attack him. The Result was a massacre, fourty players on each side, and the horde only lost two players. A tactic to be used sparingly however.

3) Twin Regiments - split your force in half, with a fair distance between both groups and facing your enemy. this tactic can serve multiple ends, my personal use involves the enemy charging one group while the other group hits them in the side (similar to hammer and anvil), or the enemy charging the empty gap and being crushed from both sides. defensively also effective, as when one group is charged, the second group can in turn suprise the attackers.

4) Napoleon - the little emperor had a nack for using artillery, in a devistating focused way. bare this in mind for this tactic. place a raid symbol over a raid member who will lead a charge and aim to be in the thick of the enemy ranks (a tank of sorts is ideal), then order your mages, warlocks and hunters to use blizzard, rain of fire and volley over them, living bomb and sead of corruption can also be used. this will focus massive amounts of aoe damage (and a snare if its a frost mage) on a high density of enemy players. this can be brutally effective in defensive positions and for breaking defensive positions, such as the entrance to keeps or through city gates.

5) Infantry charge - now this is a bog standard and simple tactic, and i'm aware i did say earlier it isnt the most reliable, but my main point was that it isnt mandatory. its best to compare it to a bayonet charge. Now the main idea is to ensure your force is organised as i stipulated in the training section. the real trick is to make sure everyone is spaced properly so that aoe isnt too effective, and that you can 'try' to envelope your enemy, surrounding them and attacking them from all sides. the main advantage with this tactic in this way is that rogues and hunters, even mages will push your enemy's flanks into the centre, making him form a tight ball, of which can be combarded (see napoleon tactic), or cause them to spread out, and be picked off.

6) come into my lair - it can often be said, that luring your enemy is a good idea. perhaps you found an excellent defensive position you can use your advantage, but sadly, your on the attack. using lures of mounted troops and taunting, perhaps even wiping/losing a round of fighting on purpose as a ploy to spur your enemy into advancing where you want him, can be beneficial. a little loss for alot of gain. this is a generic idea however, not a full course battle plan.

7) Bridges, gates and walls - possibly an atackers nightmare. just bare in mind, nobody said you had to attack straight on, Bridges can be avoided and rivers crossed, Gates arent always the only way into a city, and walls can be overcome in many numerous ways. in these situations avoid the obvious and dont play into your enemy's hands. a defender usually has his entire battle planned out, so your aim is to change the rules and do the unexpected, on your terms. Never attack defences on your enemy's terms (unless you want to wipe horribly).

8] The Wildhammer - Flying mounts can be used well in battle, allowing troops to be dropped behind, in, or around enemy troops by suprise prior to or mid fight, allowing for some decisive changes in combat flow. However, dont be foolwed into having everyone use them. this can be extremely messy and may lad to your enemy picking you off one at a time as you land (or fall to your death).

9) Hannibal - Hannibal once used elephants to crush his foes. i've seen a Draenei with a size potion and heroism, with several healers on them used as a distraction. in hillsbrad once, i witnessed some allies send such a person straight into enemy lines, they all focused on it, while the rest of the alliance army merely swept around and cleared them aside. a bizzare trick, but likely one of the most clever i've ever seen.

10) smokescreens - using flares, a player can create a wall of smoke that blocks the view of enemy players, this in effect forms a smoke screen. a brilliant method of shielding your troops and positions from view when on the defensive. my advice in particular is to make a thick dense line of them across narrow gates, doors, even bridges, makes any attackers attempts on your position more chaotic and messy.

now these are just some basic tactics, thres likely dozens more clever ways to overcome foes, but i cant sit here explaining every single one all day long.
what i will say is, as of yet, flying mounts in world-pvp have had limited use, and are something to be explored and practiced before i can comment on them effectively in any way in this guide.

My Two cents

Well i did wan you i would add this at the end, my own simple opinions. i wil ltry to be brief and orderly.
Firstly, it is of my opnion, that the only rules needed in world-pvp are:

1) dont corpse camp
2) dont kill the newly ressed, allow your enemy to regroup.
they may almost sound like the same rule, but there is a difference.

Secondly, it was inevitable, is my opinion regarding RP-gear in World-pvp. When i challenge people about it, they state its for "Fairness" and making battles last longer. surely wouldnt it be wiser to simply Stack some resilience, put some effort into a fight and not complain if you lose... there does have to be a winner and a loser afterall. The main thing here is to bare in mind the "Rp gear" rule isnt for appearance, which you would think, rather for a benine concept of fairness that is impossible to enfoce accurately and merely causes more imbalance.

Lastly, regarding Drama. Drama is created mainly by people being unhappy with rules or from losing. this Foolish thought that you have to win in World-pvp needs abolishing. Revel in defeat, learn from it, try harder next time and you will grow as a person and improve in your handeling of battles in future. Whiners can be reminded of the true realism of war, if they complain regarding realism, gear or results... again just say, people die, someone has to lose, war isnt fair.

My opinions are harsh, but i came to Defias, saw alot of things and learnt one abolsute truth. you win in battle if you deserve to win, gloriously and having fun, not because you set yourself up to in a pre-determined way. You lose in battle becuase you didnt prepare, you was the weaker force and thats the course of nature, try harder next time. Again, my opinions are harsh, but this is taking into account Realism and some degree of sense, not like five poorly trained and prepared soldiers are gonna overcome a fourty man army of elite warriors becuase of some pre prepared rules now, is it?

thankyou for taking time to read this guide! it will be updated and altered over time and will take into account all and any comments you the readers make, thanks!


Last edited by krogon on Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:14 am; edited 8 times in total
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Krogon Devilstep

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Kristeas Sunbinder on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:02 am

Hmm, Noms for thought, I must ponder this.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:03 am

A great and thorough guide, a very worthy post that needs a sticky imho.

I'm new to Defias but I do know that on the WPvP on my old server, everyone wanted to be the hero and trying to get people to follow orders and direction so you could implement any kind of tactics was nigh on impossible.

If this guidance is just a hint of what can be achieved in WPvP then I'm very much looking forward to getting involved here.

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Gahalla on Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:05 am

Hmm... It's a very decent guide. Some very useful tips and suggestions to be sure. I have some critique though, some thoughts I think would improve the guide.

First... some more formatting. You have headlines for each topic, which is great. But some sub-hedalines would make it even easier to read. Some things are deep in the text and take some effort to find. If you had a sub-headline I could find it quicker if I need.

Also, might I suggest using bbcodes inherent point lists for when you list points? Would healp a bit too I think.
Code:
[list][*]Blahblah[/list]

Secondly. Practical examples in italics would be very welcome. How do I do this? When should I do this? What is the point of this? Are examples of questions that could help answer too. Especially under tactics and scouting is this needed. These examples could be made up or actual examples, but if they reference actual locations that would be very welcome.

Thirdly. The leadership section is very good, but it lacks a discussion on actual leadership I think. Most of it is asserting authority or making yourself heard. But how to lead seems to be a bit lacking. How do I maintain morale? How do I organise my lieutenants? Permanent or for that event only? Who do I pick as my lieutenants? Should I or should I not set up a chain of command? How do I do that? What is it that is important to communicate? What is not useful information? How do I divide and organise my raid(s)? Those things would be very welcome in that section.

Fourthly. The soldier section is good. Perhaps add something about lieutenats here though? Like "find out who your lieutenant is, if any, and direct your questions and concerns to him/her"? Or somesuch.

Fifthly. Training section is excellent. Perhaps some practical advice on how to organise these events and above all: how often.

Sixthly. Terrain, good suggestions all around. I like it. Perhaps a quick pros, cons and suggested tactics list to each type?

Seventhly. Scouting. Excellent advice. Again, practical advice would be good. How many do you suggest I send? What do I tell them? Should I keep them out for the duration of the event or recall them for the attack? How should scout communication be handled? How do I use different classes for scouting (you have some of this, but more would be nice)?
A small section here for the scouts themselves would also be very useful. How do I scout? What should I keep in mind? What is important information too look for?

Eightly. I like the tactics. I really do. A list of pros, cons and suggested situations in italics or bold for every tactic would be nice.
Then I'd also request some examples of tactics in use. As in a description of a battle (real or otherwise) in where you asses the situation, choose a tactic and how you pull it off. In italics.
Also... feinting. Should I do it and if so: how do I do?

Ninthly. There's some sections I think would be good to add:
Preparation; how do I prepare for the battle? What do I need to do before it happens? How do I go from picking a date to the fighting?
Aftermath; what do I do after an event?
Inter-faction; How do I set up a group? What do I need to think about? How do I incorporate other guild's officers in this?
The RP aspect; How do I incorporate RP in all of this? How do I handle IC titles?
Objectives, goals and rules; a section specifically for rules, objectives and goals would be nice. Essentially how you set an event up.
A section describing the uses of each class would be very useful. Where do I put these classes? Is X useful in strike teams? What do I do when I am short on healers? What do I do if I lack a class?

Overall I like the guide. I'm just suggesting these things because I think they could improve it a bit. Thanks for the effort you've put in thus far.

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Etular on Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:55 am

Krogon/Sulthar wrote:1) Rogues, hunters, Cat druids and shamans all make excellent scouts. Using stealth to search out, and stalk an enemy force closely is wonderful for close observation, and information gathering, but the same can be said of a hunters Eagle eye or a shamans far sight. personally i preffer shamans, their far sight can be re used to amazing ranges and still allows for excellent intelligence gathering.

You seem to forget that us Warlocks also have an Eye of Kilrogg, at least twice as effective as other class abilities for scouting! Twisted Evil
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Kristeas Sunbinder on Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:56 am

And those things are visible?
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Etular on Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:02 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:And those things are visible?

Are they...? I've never had one attacked when scouting with it before, nor targeted unless I hover it exceptionally close to a person. Neutral I guess I just assumed they are stealthed because of which. Anywho, they can still fly (with a glyph) - and are far less noticeable than your average flying mount, whilst offering no risk to the Warlock. Razz

EDIT: *facedesk* WoWWiki -
While previously the Eye was stealthy, this feature has been removed. Previously the spell description reads "The eye is stealthy and quick, but very fragile." Now, it simply reads "The eye moves quickly but is very fragile."
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Morgeth on Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:51 am

As far as I know they have a certain stealth value to anyone not in your group/raid.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:06 am

Gahalla wrote:Hmm... It's a very decent guide. Some very useful tips and suggestions to be sure. I have some critique though, some thoughts I think would improve the guide.

First... some more formatting. You have headlines for each topic, which is great. But some sub-hedalines would make it even easier to read. Some things are deep in the text and take some effort to find. If you had a sub-headline I could find it quicker if I need.

Also, might I suggest using bbcodes inherent point lists for when you list points? Would healp a bit too I think.
Code:
[list][*]Blahblah[/list]

Secondly. Practical examples in italics would be very welcome. How do I do this? When should I do this? What is the point of this? Are examples of questions that could help answer too. Especially under tactics and scouting is this needed. These examples could be made up or actual examples, but if they reference actual locations that would be very welcome.

Thirdly. The leadership section is very good, but it lacks a discussion on actual leadership I think. Most of it is asserting authority or making yourself heard. But how to lead seems to be a bit lacking. How do I maintain morale? How do I organise my lieutenants? Permanent or for that event only? Who do I pick as my lieutenants? Should I or should I not set up a chain of command? How do I do that? What is it that is important to communicate? What is not useful information? How do I divide and organise my raid(s)? Those things would be very welcome in that section.

Fourthly. The soldier section is good. Perhaps add something about lieutenats here though? Like "find out who your lieutenant is, if any, and direct your questions and concerns to him/her"? Or somesuch.

Fifthly. Training section is excellent. Perhaps some practical advice on how to organise these events and above all: how often.

Sixthly. Terrain, good suggestions all around. I like it. Perhaps a quick pros, cons and suggested tactics list to each type?

Seventhly. Scouting. Excellent advice. Again, practical advice would be good. How many do you suggest I send? What do I tell them? Should I keep them out for the duration of the event or recall them for the attack? How should scout communication be handled? How do I use different classes for scouting (you have some of this, but more would be nice)?
A small section here for the scouts themselves would also be very useful. How do I scout? What should I keep in mind? What is important information too look for?

Eightly. I like the tactics. I really do. A list of pros, cons and suggested situations in italics or bold for every tactic would be nice.
Then I'd also request some examples of tactics in use. As in a description of a battle (real or otherwise) in where you asses the situation, choose a tactic and how you pull it off. In italics.
Also... feinting. Should I do it and if so: how do I do?

Ninthly. There's some sections I think would be good to add:
Preparation; how do I prepare for the battle? What do I need to do before it happens? How do I go from picking a date to the fighting?
Aftermath; what do I do after an event?
Inter-faction; How do I set up a group? What do I need to think about? How do I incorporate other guild's officers in this?
The RP aspect; How do I incorporate RP in all of this? How do I handle IC titles?
Objectives, goals and rules; a section specifically for rules, objectives and goals would be nice. Essentially how you set an event up.
A section describing the uses of each class would be very useful. Where do I put these classes? Is X useful in strike teams? What do I do when I am short on healers? What do I do if I lack a class?

Overall I like the guide. I'm just suggesting these things because I think they could improve it a bit. Thanks for the effort you've put in thus far.

Tonight i shall add all of the above if i can, just bare in mind i wrote all of whats currently up at midnight and slightly drunk xD

Also if i am to understand correctly, doesnt kilrog have a limited potential of range? scouting may have to be conducted across an entire zone, maybe even two, though in some cases at close range i suppose it could be handy. i've also already added another thing i should of first time around, regarding spy glassess and blackened worg steaks!
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Rasonal Dranger on Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:41 am

The guide is indeed helpfull, and it puts the emphasis on the right things. I would organise it a bit more, as Gahalla said.
Overall, very helpful, and should be stickied.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Shaelyssa on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:11 am

Very nice guide :) I didnt agree with some of the points personally but I enjoyed reading it: was very insightful. Good job and thanks for sharing!!!
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Geldar on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:23 am

You gets @ stickeh, good guide. Will try to add what input I can soon enough.

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Sylvina on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:42 am

Thank you for the great guide. It actually reminded me of some early years wPvP battels in my first PvP server. I have shared it with my guild. study
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

sticky? super sexy hot. later tonight i will be adding Two new sections regarding Sieges, and pre-battle preperation, as well as many of the points gahalla requested.

If you do disagree with a point i've made, feel free to voice your views! debate is welcome, as i am well aware as a leader i have a great many battle honours backing my views, BUT i am also deeply aware of defeats and screw ups i've made, so i welcome critique. its all a chance to improve! and gives me more stuff to add to the guide.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Exigua on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:14 pm

A great guide. I'd love to have more strategy in W-PvP. I think there's way to little, and would like to see more small-scale also, like small group ambushes and such.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Mandui on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 pm

Excellent post! You covered all the points that need to be mentioned Very Happy

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:54 pm

Mandui wrote:Excellent post! You covered all the points that need to be mentioned Very Happy

yet it feels incomplete to me, i have a strange desire to give away all the old school tricks and my own little secrets. And even add the stuff gahalla mentioned. alas, it shall be done!
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Nessra Sunwhisper on Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:57 pm

Build some tunnels.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:10 pm

Nessra/Nareesha/Wrenja wrote:Build some tunnels.

NOOOOoooOOoooo-- ... ... ...--OOoooOOoooOOO-- ......*wheeze* ... OOooooooooo--!! *die*
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Hellvern/Ben on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:23 pm

Okey okey. Interesting.

But heres the Bullet for your thoughts.

WoW just really is not built for that sort of stuff outside of doing a sort of 'IC' event. Most pvp events I have been in, involve scouting, sneaky attacks, cavalry charges, ambushes, skirmishing. Whatever.
The fact is we just decided to do it, people don't play the game to have some Military hierarchy and command shoved into their faces. WoW isn't that sorta game, and the people who play it 90% of them don't have the mindset or the care for it. People in this game often have an issue following orders they see as stupid or just can't be bothered to follow, so why make such a system when it won't work? Often its easier to make a plan, let people get on with it how they see best, regroup and prepare for the next bash.

After all, if you can tear yourself away from the computer, sod using WoW for a game of soldiers, can easily brush up on that sorta stuff in paintball or air soft. In fact, I remember whilst in school kids used to have big team fights with similar military notions on a basic level, ambushing each other, scouting, and having a chain of command. Good little insurgents gangs can be.
One point we even made flimsy firearms using party poppers, pens and small round sweets for ammo.
Anyone can be a petty strategist when they want to be.
But thats enough of my childhood days.

On a serious military motion? Hehehehe...Ahhhh just No. Don't go there. If I was to consider the sort of ideas of warfare mentioned here of the whole "destroying your enemy, dominating him" etc, I could write you a vast Essay on how this is incorrect on many many levels save for a very rare few examples. And I would bring up my sources to bombard any opposition.


Oh and Krogon.
One of Napoleons greatest faults was he was too big about himself, his own ego got the better of him. A General who can win battles but cannot win wars is not a good General. Napoleon was arguably the best tactician of his time a great organiser, but a terrible Strategist, with a crippling ego. He fought many wars and fought many battles, but in the end he achieved absolutely nothing, save for adding to the waves of death and destruction (ironically almost like WoW!).

And just to emphasise how deadly ego is, you don't hear much about the Duke of Wellington, Marlborough, Pyrrhus of Epirus, Hannibal, Orde Wingate, Robert the Bruce, Gustavus Adolphus the 2nd etc.
Why? Because they achieved much, and though admittedly many of these men did have something of an ego, (and why not?) they weren't the 'look at me, how great am I!' because success is its own reward.

And that should be a big tip for anyone who want to try and lead any community, simply demanding respect or claiming to have made many achievements or even demanding people do as you say is not the way for any leader to behave.
Benevolence, Good nature, respect, restraint are amongst a few qualities of many that make good leaders. And thats what WoW arguably needs, not good little soldiers but better leaders. And in its most vague of forms at that.

But honestly, apart from a good read and a good laugh, i'd only consider this as another guide to read for a bit of fun, which is perhaps its point?
But I wouldn't really use it otherwise, I might show people in its direction but when it comes to pvp? Go Viking, bash a few enemies, run around, attack attack attack, go home, cry, carry on playing!
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:45 pm

Hellvern/Ben wrote:Okey okey. Interesting.

But heres the Bullet for your thoughts.

WoW just really is not built for that sort of stuff outside of doing a sort of 'IC' event. Most pvp events I have been in, involve scouting, sneaky attacks, cavalry charges, ambushes, skirmishing. Whatever.
The fact is we just decided to do it, people don't play the game to have some Military hierarchy and command shoved into their faces. WoW isn't that sorta game, and the people who play it 90% of them don't have the mindset or the care for it. People in this game often have an issue following orders they see as stupid or just can't be bothered to follow, so why make such a system when it won't work? Often its easier to make a plan, let people get on with it how they see best, regroup and prepare for the next bash.

After all, if you can tear yourself away from the computer, sod using WoW for a game of soldiers, can easily brush up on that sorta stuff in paintball or air soft. In fact, I remember whilst in school kids used to have big team fights with similar military notions on a basic level, ambushing each other, scouting, and having a chain of command. Good little insurgents gangs can be.
One point we even made flimsy firearms using party poppers, pens and small round sweets for ammo.
Anyone can be a petty strategist when they want to be.
But thats enough of my childhood days.

On a serious military motion? Hehehehe...Ahhhh just No. Don't go there. If I was to consider the sort of ideas of warfare mentioned here of the whole "destroying your enemy, dominating him" etc, I could write you a vast Essay on how this is incorrect on many many levels save for a very rare few examples. And I would bring up my sources to bombard any opposition.


Oh and Krogon.
One of Napoleons greatest faults was he was too big about himself, his own ego got the better of him. A General who can win battles but cannot win wars is not a good General. Napoleon was arguably the best tactician of his time a great organiser, but a terrible Strategist, with a crippling ego. He fought many wars and fought many battles, but in the end he achieved absolutely nothing, save for adding to the waves of death and destruction (ironically almost like WoW!).

And just to emphasise how deadly ego is, you don't hear much about the Duke of Wellington, Marlborough, Pyrrhus of Epirus, Hannibal, Orde Wingate, Robert the Bruce, Gustavus Adolphus the 2nd etc.
Why? Because they achieved much, and though admittedly many of these men did have something of an ego, (and why not?) they weren't the 'look at me, how great am I!' because success is its own reward.

And that should be a big tip for anyone who want to try and lead any community, simply demanding respect or claiming to have made many achievements or even demanding people do as you say is not the way for any leader to behave.
Benevolence, Good nature, respect, restraint are amongst a few qualities of many that make good leaders. And thats what WoW arguably needs, not good little soldiers but better leaders. And in its most vague of forms at that.

But honestly, apart from a good read and a good laugh, i'd only consider this as another guide to read for a bit of fun, which is perhaps its point?
But I wouldn't really use it otherwise, I might show people in its direction but when it comes to pvp? Go Viking, bash a few enemies, run around, attack attack attack, go home, cry, carry on playing!

not to be a blunt ass.

but how many battles have you led?
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Gogol on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:57 am

I think basiclly everything Hellvern/Ben says here, goes.


Some quotes from the topic
.
"Krogon/Sulthar"
World-PvP, a Guide

what NOT to do

A Battle is about ultimately destroying your enemy, so that you may dominate him, his government and people. its a struggle to the death. Thus logic would dictate you can infact use Tactics, formations, suprise attacks, ambushes, terrain advantages, Cavalry charges and ranged bombardment to win the day and smash him utterly, achieving your objective.
- The thing is, in rp-wpvp you can for example take you'r mighty army and place you'r armour cladded arses in Undercity, planting the banner claiming it as you'rs. But it wouldent really be accepted by the community? This is why planning rp-wpvp like you want, with suprise attacks, ambushes and so forth can't be done, as it is -NOT- about meerly dominating the foe, it is about making sure both sides have equal fun. When you lead that is.

Good, glad we got that cleared up, as its a funademental annoyance of mine and one of the key reasons battles as of 2009 onwards became boring, rigid and a pure slug match, due to such silly notions.
- You'r stating you'r own personal view in a guide for everyone.

Now then, another pointer is to take into consideration information. You are under NO obligation to give your enemy your location, and often even to tell him your numbers. This removes the challenging aspect of scouting, and intelligence gathering. If a commander isnt smart enough to send out scouts to gauge his enemies strength, does he deserve to win? perhaps not, does he deserve to be flanked and surrounded? more likely so. Dont Tell your enemy your every action, otherwise he can perhaps Ic'ly, and even OOC'ly use it to his or her advantage.
- While I do see the charm in keeping it as close to the real thing, it's obvius for so maney reasons why it can't be done that way. People will, only to quote you; "OOC'ly use it to his or her advantage". A orginaiser(or leader/commander if you like) should avoid this by planning battles/scouting parties etc ahead with the other sides orginaiser. This does not mean they have to reveal the full game for everyone else, by keeping it on a need-to-know basic it is possibly to save some jolly suprises for those entangled. The orginaisers one both sides should have the mutual respect/confidence/trust for the other NOT to use said OOC information for IC/in game advantages.

You may have gathered from the last two pointers that it is an old school ideal (thus one of my ideals) that people have to Earn victory in World pvp, not merely show up and hope for the best. Well, keep this in mind, as from sme of the Servers most famous battles, thats how it worked.
- This works when it comes to meerly battles in WoW, not warfare. Who owns a territory and such.
Example: DoL gathers all their friends from SW and launches everything they got on the SGE down in the jungle. Yes they would pinn the trolls down, would it be accepted to do this in the RP community?


Another important 'Dont' would be regarding Numbers. Under no cimrcumstances should you rely purely on numbers in world pvp, it has been proven on multiple occasions by many leaders, myself included, that Tactics and cunning can overcome the Zerg any day. If you do however choose to Depend upon numbers, do so baring in mind that your enemy can use such a Strength of yours against you to cause a 'catalclysmic' defeat.
-Well put, however a great force in numbers isn't to be spit on either.


Leadership

Leadership, the position of a War leader in itself is important, you are IC the symbol of authority, control and the central hub of order and command. people rely on you to make the right calls, and use your cunning to guide them to victory. Thus some basic principles need to be maintained.

1) Dont Ever allow someone else to counter your orders and undermine your authority, confusion regarding who's in charge and counter productive orders can tear armies apart, i've seen it happen to disastrous effect on numerous occasions. Use Raid warning to assert your Leadership, and give commands clearly, combined with Yells.
- I like it. Rule with a ironfist.

2) place a raid marker over your head, this will allow everyone in your group or raid to clearly see your position, and know who to follow. subsequently, if your diving into a number of smaller groups, you can place raid markers on the leaders of smaller groups too.
- Never been a fan of such things my self, makes it seem to much of a pve raid instead of rp-wpvp. But everyone to his or her own taste I suppouse.

3) Gather all the information. Its important you assess the territory, terain and enemy before you charge hea dlong into battle, weighing up all the odds, advantages and disadvantages. Good use of scouts, foresight and planning can vastly increase your odds.
- Line of seight and cover is what is essential, for IC aspect however you'll need all these things.

4) Be flexible. if your Hell bent on a particular course of action you risk being forced by an adaptive enemy into a bad position. however if your remain flexible, you can Adapt as situations in the field change.
- I suppouse that is also a IC aspect, what kind of character is the commander?

5) Be Firm. if you Give an order and its ignored or not noticed, Firmly remind people of the position they need to be in, or what they should be doing. small groups going rogue can massively effect the course and flow of a battle, and even cause defeat.
- The set rule for the battle/campaign should be followed, and strictly enforced with bat and candy.

6) Keep good OOC contact with the opposing leader. if the battle has ben arranged, its a good idea to have a good line of OOC communication with the opposing leader, to maintain order, and avoid such things as griefing, musunderstandings and drama. nobody likes drama, Everyone loves fun.
- I wish you happy christmas, I do dear I do.

7) Use time wisely. if you spend all your time forming up elabortate formations, marching in slow rank, then you can waste valuable time that your enemy can use against you. this can be used in many examples, but time as a factor can be vital regarding pre-decided objectives and regarding the position of your enemy and allies alike.
- Question is, what is most important. the RP or PvP experience? rp-wpvp is a fine line to walk.

8] Tunnel Vision. a particular danger, if you get too Absorbed into a fight, you cant control it properly, and can be taken by suprise. its often a good idea to step back and lead from the centre, rather than the front. Alert sharp eyes can detect Changes, tunnel vision inhibits spotting problems.
- What type of problems? Are they IC or OOC releated? Say you'r character is the "Follow me men!"type; it would be pretty logical he'd get wrapped up in his own fighting, lacking the clear communication of command.
However if it is of a OOC nature, be on you'r fucking toes.


9) Today is not a good day to die. this is true, if you march to war and find yourself mightily outnumbered, outgunned and outsmarted, Nowhere is it wirrten down that you must fight and die, you can withdraw, to live and report to your superiors and allies of what has come to pass. Retreat -is- an option.
- But if you arranged with the other side; "Let's meet here this day, this time." it is a bit lame not to show up, or showing up, only to hastley withdraw? Again it's about making sure everyone has equal fun, wich is not always easy.

10) Advice. dont get clogged up by it. if a ful lraid is trying to get your attention with advice, suggestions and nagging, yell at them to shut up and get in line. Wars are not won by a democratic debate, their won by soldiers marching to the tune set by the general. its harsh i know, but theres nothing more mind numbing than fourty people fighting over your attention and demanding you heed their ideas.
- There is logic here.

Oh and one last thing, if you have the ability, get yourself a spy glass. These tools can be created by engineers and used by anyone, a very handy tool for looking over short distances. whats more, if you can, raise your cooking skill and learn to make Blackened Worg steaks. These little nibbles provide humanoid tracking as a buff, and as a non hunter class can prove Extremely useful.
- It's to each ones flavour, I my self wouldent allow such buffs to be passed around in camp in a rp-wpvp setting, unless it was said without a shadow of a doubt; "All buffs are go, let slip the hounds of war, etc."

To the soldiers.

Thats right, a small section for the privates, sergeants, and foot soldiers in battle. if you are reading this, then please take into account the above section.
1) dont crowd and spam your leading officer with advice and suggestions, they need their heads clear and eyes alert.
2) dont run off and follow your own initiative, a leader doesnt need to be yelling at people to get back in line.
3) dont throw a hissy fit because your not getting what you want. a raid leader may have to contend with upwards of fourty people at once, thats a Tall order in organisation terms and one person throwing their toys out of their pram isnt something they may, or even should tolerate.
- And if there is something you disagree with, better take it up with you'r orginaiser after, and in a most delicate way, most orginaisers/commanders/big bosses have gigantic egos that are so easily bruised.

Training

Ahh Training. one of my favourite aspects to world pvp. if an army is organised, disciplined and works well as a team, it can overcome number disadvantages with good training and organisation. in effect, the battle can be won before it even starts. heres some quick tips regarding how to go about this.

1) organise regular guild/group events to allow a force to train together, practicing moving across a battlefield as a tight nit group, supporting each other and working as a team.

2) practice some of the tactics i will explain later in this guide, such as formations, defending a position, Mounted charges and scouting.
3) Nothiung wrong with duelling, some people can benefit hugely simply from doing it more. constructive criticism IC and ooc can boost morale and the base skills of a player ion pvp (and hopefully World pvp).

4) Promote a level of standards. Teach your troops the ideas of battle you want them to follow. such as sticking together as a group, following the leader or his lieutenants. If players know out of reflex what they should be doing, then you likely wont need to waste time asserting authority, spamming yells or raid warning. it all helps with organisation.

5) practice with other groups from the same faction, exchange ideas, practice 'war-games'. this can help with all of the aspects above.
some key things i myself would instill in any group and highly advise you to do likewise are:

a) Keep together as a group, strength un unity.
b) follow the leader, if he has a raid symbol over his head, you cant miss him/her.
c) dont ignoe orders, keep sharp and ensure you know what your meant to be doing.
d) ensure players dont enter a tunnel vision mode that impairs judgement and changes in orders.
6) ensure people know where to be in a basic battle line. You the leader should be at its centre, with heavy melee up front, healers to the rear, casters and hunters on the flanks, and stealthers on the far sides. This in effect should cause a natural response where any frontal attack means plate bear the brunt, ranged can engage effectively, healers are safe (perhaps) and stealthers can engage the enemy efficiently.
- Regular IC training events is always fun for the military based character.

Terrain

- Terrain in WoW is vastly diffrent from the real one. As in hills, slopes and everything that goes makes no diffrence to speed or stamina, mounted or unmounted. Look out for covers.

Scouting

-The orginaisers should use this for IC purpouses. But the knowledge of when and where should already be clear to them, while clouded for the rest of the army, save perhaps a few choosen.

Basic tactics for beginners

As Explained earlier, the notion that armies must face off in basic lines as a mandatory point, is rediculous, to read this section well!

1) the hammer and anvil - likely one of my favourite tactics, best used in open ground. using three quaters of your force as an infantry group, approach the enmy from the front, while the alst quater, mount up, circle around and charge them in the rear or side when battle is joined. An excellent tactic on flat ground and forcing your enemy on the run.
- Seiken taught me this one. My favourite as well.

2) The Kozgugore Khan - this Tactic won me my first ever major battle, defeating an army twice the size of my own, and paving the road to many more victorys. the idea is essentially to use an all mounted force, and to quickly and swifly circle around your enemy, attacking him by suprise in the flank or rear. it can be a devestating tacctic that quickly mops up the enemy with brutal efficiency. suprise is key, so ensure you re mount promptly and move away to a distant position to attempt a re-try. try not to use it on a well entrenched enemy on high ground, you WILL die horribly. However, the last time i saw it used was in andorhal suprisingly, When kozgugore was about to be charged in the rear, he led everyone on mounts in a big circle within the city (through the streets) and right into the rear of the enemy about to attack him. The Result was a massacre, fourty players on each side, and the horde only lost two players. A tactic to be used sparingly however.
- Here is a random wolf battle


3) Twin Regiments - split your force in half, with a fair distance between both groups and facing your enemy. this tactic can serve multiple ends, my personal use involves the enemy charging one group while the other group hits them in the side (similar to hammer and anvil), or the enemy charging the empty gap and being crushed from both sides. defensively also effective, as when one group is charged, the second group can in turn suprise the attackers.

4) Napoleon - the little emperor had a nack for using artillery, in a devistating focused way. bare this in mind for this tactic. place a raid symbol over a raid member who will lead a charge and aim to be in the thick of the enemy ranks (a tank of sorts is ideal), then order your mages, warlocks and hunters to use blizzard, rain of fire and volley over them, living bomb and sead of corruption can also be used. this will focus massive amounts of aoe damage (and a snare if its a frost mage) on a high density of enemy players. this can be brutally effective in defensive positions and for breaking defensive positions, such as the entrance to keeps or through city gates.
- Mortar COMBAT!

5) Infantry charge - now this is a bog standard and simple tactic, and i'm aware i did say earlier it isnt the most reliable, but my main point was that it isnt mandatory. its best to compare it to a bayonet charge. Now the main idea is to ensure your force is organised as i stipulated in the training section. the real trick is to make sure everyone is spaced properly so that aoe isnt too effective, and that you can 'try' to envelope your enemy, surrounding them and attacking them from all sides. the main advantage with this tactic in this way is that rogues and hunters, even mages will push your enemy's flanks into the centre, making him form a tight ball, of which can be combarded (see napoleon tactic), or cause them to spread out, and be picked off.
- Get them to the middle for aoe bombardment. Very good thinking.

6) come into my lair - it can often be said, that luring your enemy is a good idea. perhaps you found an excellent defensive position you can use your advantage, but sadly, your on the attack. using lures of mounted troops and taunting, perhaps even wiping/losing a round of fighting on purpose as a ploy to spur your enemy into advancing where you want him, can be beneficial. a little loss for alot of gain. this is a generic idea however, not a full course battle plan.

7) Bridges, gates and walls - possibly an atackers nightmare. just bare in mind, nobody said you had to attack straight on, Bridges can be avoided and rivers crossed, Gates arent always the only way into a city, and walls can be overcome in many numerous ways. in these situations avoid the obvious and dont play into your enemy's hands. a defender usually has his entire battle planned out, so your aim is to change the rules and do the unexpected, on your terms. Never attack defences on your enemy's terms (unless you want to wipe horribly).
- A thing to be discussed ebtween the orginaisers for each planned event?(It goes for pretty much everything..)

8] The Wildhammer - Flying mounts can be used well in battle, allowing troops to be dropped behind, in, or around enemy troops by suprise prior to or mid fight, allowing for some decisive changes in combat flow. However, dont be foolwed into having everyone use them. this can be extremely messy and may lad to your enemy picking you off one at a time as you land (or fall to your death).

9) Hannibal - Hannibal once used elephants to crush his foes. i've seen a Draenei with a size potion and heroism, with several healers on them used as a distraction. in hillsbrad once, i witnessed some allies send such a person straight into enemy lines, they all focused on it, while the rest of the alliance army merely swept around and cleared them aside. a bizzare trick, but likely one of the most clever i've ever seen.
-Draneis? I thought they where hiding, dear, hiding all the way.

10) smokescreens - using flares, a player can create a wall of smoke that blocks the view of enemy players, this in effect forms a smoke screen. a brilliant method of shielding your troops and positions from view when on the defensive. my advice in particular is to make a thick dense line of them across narrow gates, doors, even bridges, makes any attackers attempts on your position more chaotic and messy.
- Also a fun tool to be used for the extra RP touch, like when the Forsaken bombards with blight, green smoke is just a delight.

now these are just some basic tactics, thres likely dozens more clever ways to overcome foes, but i cant sit here explaining every single one all day long.
what i will say is, as of yet, flying mounts in world-pvp have had limited use, and are something to be explored and practiced before i can comment on them effectively in any way in this guide.
- In W-pvp you dont always win by winning.


Not that it actually matters, but in case you wonder, I'v led a few w-pvp battles.
And as for my two cents, Seiken basiclly taught me everything I know about w-pvp back when Stormwind was overun by the Hand of Nightmares, a most nostalgic memory.
We have however today two very diffrent views on how w-pvp should be conducted, I dont claim I'am right you are wrong.
But this is my take on rp-wpvp.

Note; I choose the word rp-wpvp and not meerly wpvp, as this is the only thing I known anything about, if you are discussing wpvp it's a completly diffrent thing.
The name of this topic is "World-PvP, a Guide". So if I'm wrong, I do beg my pardon for wasting anyone who have botherd to read this most precious time.
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Gogol

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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Krogon Devilstep on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:26 am

i -AM- Seiken...

*facepalm*
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Kristeas Sunbinder on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:27 am

*eyes forsaken* where was his grave again?
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

Post by Gogol on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:28 am

I know who you are.
Just a habbit calling you by you'r old characters name.

I was Gogol.
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Re: [Guide] World-RP-pvp for beginners

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